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Trips second kicker - is this a tricky situation?

  
 
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DaHorror
Old 05-19-2006, 03:08 PM     Post subject: Trips second kicker - is this a tricky situation? #1 (permalink)  
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I'm gonna post this one raw and get some feedback. Then I will post my thoughts as the hand played out, and the results.

First question, do you raise KJs from the button after two limpers as a standard raise at full ring (6-max I would, full ring I tend to just limp)?

What am I typically looking for if I limp KJs? Straight draw, flush draw, trip jacks, trip kings, flopped flush or straight or FH. Top pair with no action is acceptable though I'm not playing for stacks in that event. I hit one of these and played it out.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($15.95)
CO ($10.15)
Hero ($23.55)
SB ($31.85)
BB ($39.93)
UTG ($9.65)
UTG+1 ($23.30)
UTG+2 ($34.20)
MP1 ($33.45)
MP2 ($24.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, K. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
4 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.25) J, J, 7 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets $0.5, Hero raises to $1.5, SB calls $1.50, BB folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds.

Turn: ($4.75) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB raises to $8, Hero calls $5.

River: ($20.75) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $8, Hero calls $8.
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drtofu66
Old 05-19-2006, 03:22 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I don't like how the SB smoothcalled the bet and raise on the flop and then CR'd the turn. Maybe one of the resident experts could find a nice play of checking behind on the turn from his suspicious flop action, but I sure couldn't. I still value bet that turn and end up in a fine mess and maximize my loss.

From the action I'd guess he had 77 or J7. Maybe JT, QJ, or AJ but I really doubt that.
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dalecooper
Old 05-19-2006, 03:36 PM #3 (permalink)  
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The problem is, he could very easily play a naked jack exactly the same way. With no pre-flop raise he could be holding jack-anything. I'd probably play it about like that, and if he has the house, pay him off.
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Miffed22001
Old 05-19-2006, 03:49 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 at 25nl id have 3bet the turn or pushed the river.
I doubt he has a boat, this looks like a Jx to me
At 100nl however id have prob taken your line but may have raised the river because opp hasnt pushed and i think my jack is better.

If opp gets all in id be wary but the river is a vlaue bet so id push here.
I cant put opp on spades on river.
so maybe i 3bet all in on the turn and lose a stack if im beat (whioch i dont think i am)
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DaHorror
Old 05-19-2006, 06:38 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Ok - reposting with play-along dialogue and results. Thanks for the comments.
Sounds like I was generally just screwed here.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($15.95)
CO ($10.15)
Hero ($23.55)
SB ($31.85)
BB ($39.93)
UTG ($9.65)
UTG+1 ($23.30)
UTG+2 ($34.20)
MP1 ($33.45)
MP2 ($24.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, K. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
4 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

[I don't generally raise KJs after limpers - I just limp along looking for the goods and hope to get paid. Perhaps this is too weak. Sure woulda saved my ass this time if I had raised - woulda just picked up a small pot but better than the results.]

Flop: ($1.25) J, J, 7 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets $0.5, Hero raises to $1.5, SB calls $1.50, BB folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds.

[I don't want to F around slowplaying here - doofus with ace high, 7x, 89, 99-AA won't believe me and will chase anyway. I reraise, but not too hard. Now the SB limper smooth calls.
That sets of some minor alarms. Instinct alone gives me a range of hands for him of
Most likely: Jx (JT/QJ/KJ/AJ/J8/J9 mostly), 77
Less likely: AA/KK/QQ/Ax

There is nothing to chase here so he's probably not chasing, either he doesn't believe me and has an overpair, or he has a weaker jack, maybe better etc.]

Turn: ($4.75) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB raises to $8, Hero calls $5.

[My plan here was to go ahead and bet out - either he folds crap, even a donk-limped AA/KK/QQ 7x, or he calls with 77 or Jx.
I figured he'd reraise AJ, maybe 77 here...so I would dump to the reraise and follow my instincts.
Dumbass me didn't listen to the frickin alarms.]

River: ($20.75) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $8, Hero calls $8.

Value bets on the end. I have no fear of the flush here. I fear mostly 77/AJ. Another dumbass river call. Grrrr!!!
I would probably mostly have just pushed the turn...but something was not sitting right - just gut feel...knew I was beat and then called turn and river anyway. Gotta listen to those instincts more I guess.

Final Pot: $36.75

Results below:
SB has 7s Jc (full house, jacks full of sevens).
Hero has Jh Kh (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: SB wins $36.75.

Honestly, I didn't expect to see J7o - I know he's got odds to complete the SB with that hand preflop, but the chances that it provides are so weak, I sure as heck never complete my SB with it, even if the whole table limps. The # of times I'm gonna flop a monster vs. waste half a blind are just too few to make it count for me. But it sure counted for this guy in a big way.
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dalecooper
Old 05-19-2006, 06:50 PM #6 (permalink)  
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That's exactly it - lots of players complete with trash hands like that, even though their post-flop position and hand quality make it hopeless for them without flopping the absolute nuts. Would he have done this with J6, J8, J9, JT, JQ, JK? Maybe. That's why you pay him off.
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