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Sprayed
Old 02-08-2009, 10:23 AM     Post subject: Trip tens #1 (permalink)  
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 I figure the call preflop is ok since I'm getting decent odds with a speculative hand. After I get two callers on the flop, should I figure that I might be beat? Both opponents are 13/10/3. I'm 17/13/4.

I might be looking at this from a weak/tight perspective, but I'm finding that I lose the most in these types of hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($58.25)
Button ($74.95)
SB ($47.35)
Hero (BB) ($53.05)
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($64.75)
MP1 ($52.70)
MP2 ($63.35)
MP3 ($50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, K
2 folds, MP1 raises to $2, MP2 calls $2, 1 fold, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.75, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($12) 10, 8, 10 (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8.50, MP1 calls $8.50, 2 folds, Button calls $8.50, 1 fold

Turn: ($37.50) 3 (3 players)
Hero bets $26.75, 1 fold, Button raises to $64.45 (All-In), Hero calls $15.80 (All-In)

I'm also losing the most with KK. Against a 15/13 UTG that 4bets, are you just calling and seeing flops? I thought that the possibility was there that he could have like AKs on this flop and was shoving so I called. But, how many decent players 4bet AKs UTG when 3bet? Can I avoid going busto with the hand above and the hand below?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($50.75)
MP1 ($66.90)
MP2 ($53.45)
MP3 ($48.25)
CO ($34.30)
Hero (Button) ($54.45)
SB ($61.25)
BB ($13.10)
UTG ($50.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K
UTG raises to $1.50, 5 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, 2 folds, UTG raises to $14.50, Hero calls $9

Flop: ($29.75) 10, 4, 9 (2 players)
UTG bets $23, Hero raises to $39.95 (All-In), UTG calls $13.25 (All-In)

Turn: ($102.25) 6 (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($102.25) J (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $102.25 | Rake: $3

River: ($122.60) 9 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $122.60 | Rake: $3
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badgers
Old 02-08-2009, 11:57 AM #2 (permalink)  
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1 looks good, unless they're really nitty postflop but without that read this is fine.

2 is bad. If you don't know what to do when they 4bet, don't 3bet. There's nothing wrong with flatting KK to an utg raise, calling the 4bet seems bad because you're maybe lettin him get away form AK but this is AA soooo muich of the time. Without 3bet history this is a call preflop (I think the higher stakes you go the more of a 3bet this is because you are presumed to be more aggro as an unknown)
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Miffed22001
Old 02-08-2009, 12:15 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 hand 2 is a non-decision IMO except id get it in pre
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Deanglow
Old 02-08-2009, 04:59 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 hand 1 if you are losing the most in these types of hands fold preflop
hand 2 consider flatting the initial raise 50% of the time. Flat the 4bet
 
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mcatdog
Old 02-08-2009, 05:23 PM #5 (permalink)  
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preflop in hand 1 is very far from OK
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swiggidy
Old 02-08-2009, 05:45 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
preflop in hand 1 is very far from OK
This

I'm almost never calling KTs from the BTN.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
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Deanglow
Old 02-08-2009, 06:56 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
preflop in hand 1 is very far from OK
This

I'm almost never calling KTs from the BTN.
Disagree slightly with mcat

Diagree a lot with swig
 
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Sprayed
Old 02-08-2009, 10:36 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: Hero is in the BB. Called due to odds, ~7-1. Given stats and the fact that I have two callers, I think that I can check/call this down. Fold to a massive bet. Is my bet on the turn incorrect? Or is this just standard variance?

Hand 2: I agree with badgers and Deanglow. Looking back on this hand, I think that I should have either called or 3bet/ship it in over his 4bet. I call UTG raises with AK and QQ. Maybe throw KK in there as well against 50NL nits since their range is heavily weighted towards AK, QQ+. I know that I'm ahead of this range, but does that mean that I have to 3bet?
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Renton
Old 02-09-2009, 12:09 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 1: fold pre, postflop standard obv

2: call pre, shove pre as played
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Fnord
Old 02-09-2009, 12:27 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
preflop in hand 1 is very far from OK
From the SB or not closing the action I would agree. As-is I think it's pretty meh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Sprayed
Old 02-09-2009, 10:20 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 I'm confused. Some say that the call preflop in hand 1 is ok and some say it's not. Calling from the bb with a speculative hand for 7-1 is not ok?
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Renton
Old 02-09-2009, 11:07 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 i wouldn't call it disgustingly bad, but its not a call i like to make
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elipsesjeff
Old 02-09-2009, 11:33 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 I can't give anything more than what's been said so:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcatdog
preflop in hand 1 is very far from OK
This

I'm almost never calling KTs from the BTN.
Disagree slightly with mcat

Diagree a lot with swig


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pocketfours
Old 02-09-2009, 01:01 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprayed
I'm confused. Some say that the call preflop in hand 1 is ok and some say it's not. Calling from the bb with a speculative hand for 7-1 is not ok?
The problem with your hand is that you hit second best too often and you are out of position. I think it's an easy fold. Postflop standard ofc.
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Sprayed
Old 02-09-2009, 01:35 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 I follow now. Mid broadway hands are terrible multiway. Especially OOP. This spot would call for Axs, pps, and some scs. Hands that would flop nut hands. Also, I think that I need to stop being a pussy and just get my chips in with the KK hand preflop.
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mediumhand
Old 02-15-2009, 10:46 AM #16 (permalink)  

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hand (1):
preflop is not good really oop,.... suited i call....(but would much rather have kjs).. i dont see ur question here and trying to read his range as semibluffing aks...ur reading bad if u meant it like this.u have the nuts.
hand (2):
shove or fold pre (if he's supernit)...its funnyt cos iseen some ppl 4beting/folding but wotever.... u get Axx flop and what you gonna do ? tilt on all ur tables..... shove 95% of time.
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