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TPTK, dazed and confused.

  
 
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grnydrowave2
Old 03-28-2006, 04:14 PM     Post subject: TPTK, dazed and confused. #1 (permalink)  
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SB is pretty loose, very aggressive. Button very very loose, pretty aggressive. I can't put either of them on any kind of range. The flop scares me a little, but I can't get away from it. I figure if they're drawing, they're not getting odds, and I may have them outkicked. I elect to see another card. No help, I'm not very happy with my hand, and I decide I'll probably check/fold it, until the puny $1 bet. I can't say what was going through my head, but pushing seemed like a good idea at the time. I just felt lost during this hand and I'm not sure how I could have played it better.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($23.15)
MP2 ($9.15)
CO ($9.05)
Button ($20.60)
SB ($22.80)
BB ($5.85)
UTG ($22.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, A.
UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.5, MP2 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Button calls $0.50, SB calls $0.45, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.40.

Flop: ($2.60) 2, 4, A (5 players)
SB bets $1.7, UTG folds, Hero calls $1.70, MP2 folds, Button raises to $3.4, SB calls $1.70, Hero calls $1.70.

Turn: ($12.80) J (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $1, SB calls $1, Hero raises to $19.25, Button calls $15.70 (All-In), SB folds.

River: ($49.75) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $49.75

Results in white below:
Hero has Kc As (one pair, aces).
Button has 4h 2h (two pair, fours and twos).
Outcome: Button wins $47.20. Hero wins $2.55.
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nutsinho
Old 03-28-2006, 04:50 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 playing for stacks with tptk against opponents who have low preflop standards is a recipe for disaster
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grnydrowave2
Old 03-28-2006, 04:52 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
playing for stacks with tptk against opponents who have low preflop standards is a recipe for disaster
Okay. What should I have done differently?
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nutsinho
Old 03-28-2006, 04:58 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 raise turn to maybe 6 check behind on river
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Bo G
Old 03-28-2006, 05:00 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Bigger raise. If you 5xbb is getting 4 callers you need to raise higher 10xbb or whatever is the issolation point to get 1 max 2 going to the flop.
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grnydrowave2
Old 03-28-2006, 05:14 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutsinho
raise turn to maybe 6 check behind on river
If I check the river, I'm nearly certain the button will bet big. Then what? If fold, then I don't see the point in raising the turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo G
Bigger raise. If you 5xbb is getting 4 callers you need to raise higher 10xbb or whatever is the issolation point to get 1 max 2 going to the flop.
Wow, that actually never crossed my mind. I almost always make a standard 4xbb raise +1bb for each limper. I agree that it's necessary to isolate, but I wonder if such a hefty raise is a good idea with what I consider to be a speculative hand. I tend to play AJ+ timidly. I almost never c-bet unless my opposition is particularly weak.
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BankItDrew
Old 03-28-2006, 05:15 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Don't put your whole stack in the middle with TPTK with 3 other players in, somebody will have a better hand often enough for you to loose $ in the long run.

And do what BoG says in raising more to get more of an isolation, especially at these levels. Pot heads love the 42 suited.


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grnydrowave2
Old 03-28-2006, 05:19 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItPayette
Don't put your whole stack in the middle with TPTK with 3 other players in, somebody will have a better hand often enough for you to loose $ in the long run.

And do what BoG says in raising more to get more of an isolation, especially at these levels. Pot heads love the 42 suited.
Sorry, perhaps I should have been more clear. I understand that pushing was a bonehead play. My question is what would be a better approach?

I'm not sure if pot head is a play on words, but either way I find the comment amusing
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bair
Old 03-28-2006, 05:43 PM #9 (permalink)  
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1. raise more preflop at these limits, especially when they are loose, your raising standards need to adjust at every table, you need to be raising whatever limits the field, you shouldnt have a set amount you raise. also i usually raise larger in early position because i dont want to be OOP against more than 1 opponent, whereas on the button i dont really care if more than 1 calls.
2. the minraise on the flop made it pretty damn obvious you could be behind
3. with that said, the last thing you should be doing is pushing, i probably check/call the turn and check/call/fold on the river depending on the bet
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DaHorror
Old 03-28-2006, 05:44 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Your table is super fishy...raise more preflop as has been said - have to figure out what the right amount is, and these 2 guys seem like they will call with any two anyway so it might not matter. Pacific Poker often plays like this, so I'm familiar with the need to isolate by raising more preflop (as opposed to UltimateBet where a 50c raise often enough gets folds around).

Reraise SB's bet to pot $5 or so...then you can safely fold to the button's 3 bet. If button and SB just smooth call and you don't improve on the turn, slow down. Looks like if you had checked he would have given you a cheap card on the turn to improve on the river, and a fairly cheap showdown - maybe even free.
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