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tough call...what d'ya think?

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boyobach

07-26-2005, 02:39 PM Post subject: tough call...what d'ya think?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: UK

Posts: 86

Knew the guy had AA or KK....the turn card was painful for me.
But his chat made me call.

I know a lot of you will say i should have folded preflop, but i knew this guy wouldn't lay down big pair if i hit. Here it is.....

***** Hand History for Game 2426642882 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, August 25, 08:12:05 EDT 2005
Table Table 37285 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 3: Aceo2 ( $65.55 )
Seat 6: Hero ( $61.10 )
Seat 5: jserio52 ( $80.10 )
Seat 2: miksal ( $26.32 )
Seat 7: PHO_99 ( $33.80 )
Seat 9: justin728jn ( $48.80 )
Seat 4: mgorring ( $51.95 )
Seat 10: BIGDADDY_40 ( $40.95 )
Seat 8: iiu3hj7 ( $51.28 )
miksal posts small blind [$0.25].
mgorring posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 2d 2h ]
miksal: thx
jserio52 raises [$2.25].
Hero calls [$2.25].
PHO_99 folds.
iiu3hj7 folds.
justin728jn folds.
BIGDADDY_40 calls [$2.25].
miksal folds.
mgorring folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, Qc, 2s ]
jserio52 bets [$10].
Hero raises [$20].
BIGDADDY_40 folds.
>You have options at Table 36930 Table!.
Aceo2 has left the table.
jserio52 calls [$10].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ]
jserio52 bets [$50].
Hero : dont like that turn
jserio52: i dont have K
Hero: i have a st
>You have options at Table 36930 Table!.
BIGDADDY_40: dam what r u thinkn bout
Hero is all-In.
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
jserio52 shows [ As, Ad ] a pair of aces.
Hero shows [ 2d, 2h ] three of a kind, twos.
jserio52 wins $11.15 from side pot #1 with a pair of aces.
Hero wins $122.20 from the main pot with three of a kind, twos.
whew

A coupla times, I had reraised his flop bets and won pot without showdown. Maybe he started to disbelieve my raises.

pocket Jacks eh?

CANT WIN WITH 'EM
CANT WIN AGAINST 'EM
CANT FOLD 'EM

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arkana

07-26-2005, 02:43 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,109

Easy call, Im not laying a set down because I think someone else has a higher set.

LeFou

07-26-2005, 02:44 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Looks good to me. Oversets are pretty rare, even though they don't feel like it.

Note: KK would not bet that big. KK would want to ensure a call.

boyobach

07-26-2005, 03:01 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: UK

Posts: 86

The more i think about it, the more i am unsure whether i should have called.

The 3 hands i think he could have had with his preflop raise were AA, KK and QQ. 2 out of these 3 hands had me beat at time of money going in.

My flop raise indicated i had a set, didn't it?

If he registered this, maybe he woulda thought "well, he has a set so he's gonna call anyhow" and then pushed with his top set.

I was gonna fold, but it was only when he said "he doesn't have a K" that my gut feeling said he had AA.

pocket Jacks eh?

CANT WIN WITH 'EM
CANT WIN AGAINST 'EM
CANT FOLD 'EM

arkana

07-26-2005, 03:26 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyobach

The 3 hands i think he could have had with his preflop raise were AA, KK and QQ. 2 out of these 3 hands had me beat at time of money going in.

Why? Does he only raise with these hands? He raised a little more than 4xBB, to me thats a standard preflop raise and he could have a wide range of hands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyobach

My flop raise indicated i had a set, didn't it?

Not necessarily, he could put you on AQ or KK or even a pocket pair like JJ or TT that is reraising the continuation bet to find out where hes at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boyobach

If he registered this, maybe he woulda thought "well, he has a set so he's gonna call anyhow" and then pushed with his top set.

His turn bet was screaming that he wants you to fold not call. What you are describing is a level of play I dont think you will find at these stakes.

DaNutsInYoEye

07-26-2005, 04:11 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

Quote:

I know a lot of you will say i should have folded preflop, but i knew this guy wouldn't lay down big pair if i hit.

No, I would actually encourage calls like this because your implied odds are huge, especially at the lower limits where people can't lay down an over pair. Case in point...

PokerStars Game #2191113857: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2005/07/26 - 10:34:30
(ET)
Table 'Fama IV' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: shamo ($46.30 in chips)
Seat 3: DocSlapnut ($60.80 in chips)
Seat 4: el vikingo ($49.75 in chips)
Seat 5: exacta ($99.00 in chips)
Seat 6: NutsInYoEye ($97.70 in chips)
Seat 7: thegroin ($281.30 in chips)
Seat 8: Pulp_X ($97.10 in chips)
Seat 9: ammed ($33.20 in chips)
ammed: posts small blind $0.50
shamo: posts big blind $1.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to NutsInYoEye [4s 4c]
juanita3 has returned
DocSlapnut: calls $1.00
el vikingo: calls $1.00
exacta: raises $2 to $3.00
NutsInYoEye: calls $3.00
thegroin: raises $7 to $10
Pulp_X: calls $10
ammed: calls $9.50
shamo: folds
DocSlapnut: folds
el vikingo: folds
exacta: calls $7
NutsInYoEye: calls $7
*** FLOP *** [2s 4d 7c]
ammed: checks
exacta: bets $7
NutsInYoEye: calls $7
thegroin: raises $33 to $40
Pulp_X: folds
ammed: folds
exacta: folds
NutsInYoEye: calls $33
*** TURN *** [2s 4d 7c] [6s]
NutsInYoEye: checks
thegroin: bets $231.30 and is all-in
NutsInYoEye: calls $47.70 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [2s 4d 7c 6s] [Ks]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
NutsInYoEye: shows [4s 4c] (three of a kind, Fours)
thegroin: mucks hand
NutsInYoEye collected $219.40 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $222.40| Rake $3
Board [2s 4d 7c 6s Ks]
Seat 1: shamo (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: DocSlapnut folded before Flop
Seat 4: el vikingo folded before Flop
Seat 5: exacta folded on the Flop
Seat 6: NutsInYoEye showed [4s 4c] and won ($219.40) with three of a kind, Fours
Seat 7: thegroin mucked [Qd Qs]
Seat 8: Pulp_X (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: ammed (small blind) folded on the Flop

I'll call 3x-5x BB bets pre-flop with small pocket pairs, especially I think I think that someone has a higher pocket pair like QQ-AA. With a rag flop, pretty much anyone will throw out a pot sized bet or even overbet when they have an overpair. Sets are hard to detect to begin with, and sometimes even more so when people don't expect little cards when you call a decent pre-flop bet. The hand I just posted is a little weird with so many other callers, but you get the idea.

When you find yourself in a situation like this where you hit a small set and you are confident in an over pair, then LEAD out if you're first to act. If you use the weak lead and bet around 1/3 - 1/2 the pot, the person with an over pair will almost always come over the top and usually pot commit themselves. You can then either re-raise and likely get a call or smooth call and wait for the turn to spring your trap.

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

07-26-2005, 04:58 PM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,855

You need to make these calls EVERY TIME with pocket pairs. EVERY TIME. You will hit a set something like 1/8 times on the flop. When you hit a set you have a great chance of getting paid. I know I love throwing $2.25 out there if I knew I had a chance to take a guy's entire stack.

Just remember: "Set it or forget it!"

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