www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

top two vs aggro unknown

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

daven

09-06-2008, 06:52 AM Post subject: top two vs aggro unknown

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,807

villain is 30-20 after a few orbits and gives off an air of spew monkey - not sure why, something to do with bet-sizing and timing/lines so far at the table.

Sometimes 3-bet here is good, sometimes flatting, and my hand plays just as well if the blinds come along *they're not the squeezing types. Also, villain is likely to fold to a 3-bet - and I'm quite keen to see flops with him.

Flop seems like a flat is standard, then after his turn bet a min-raise is going to get him well attached to the pot. I figure his range when he pushes to be JJ+, AT, and I guess a taste of 55/99/TT/A9/A5...

thoughts?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($54.50)
BB ($97.60)
UTG ($59)
UTG+1 ($152.65)
MP1 ($101.85)
MP2 ($47.15)
MP3 ($52.45)
Hero (CO) ($60)
Button ($50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10

, 9

2 folds, MP1 raises to $1.75, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.75, 3 folds

Flop: ($4.25) 10

, 5

, 9

(2 players)
MP1 bets $4.25, Hero calls $4.25

Turn: ($12.75) 2

(2 players)
MP1 bets $12.75, Hero raises to $25.50, MP1 raises to $89.25, Hero calls $28.50 (All-In)

River: ($120.75) 10

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $120.75 | Rake: $3

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

allabout

09-06-2008, 03:31 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: VA USA

Posts: 277

I would normally raise the flop. Seems like there are a lot of turn cards that make you cringe. Also if he has like an overpair there's a lot of cards that could come that might make him slow down a little (maybe not if he's an aggromonkey). nh

"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Elmer Letterman

cardsman1992

09-06-2008, 03:54 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397

Posts: 1,065

On a drier board flatting is good if you think you can get it in on a turn blank. However, on this board, he prolly doesn't fold an overpair so I am raising and snapcalling a shove.

Operation Grind For Education:

Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR

badgers

09-06-2008, 04:06 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Spewing

Posts: 3,372

seriously the flop call is anything but standard, this should be an easy raise.

3k post - Return of the blog!

aka_red

09-06-2008, 07:52 PM

#5 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: house

Posts: 903

i think flatting is fine

[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face

badgers

09-06-2008, 08:51 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Spewing

Posts: 3,372

Quote:

Originally Posted by reDZill4

i think flatting is fine

Please explain? We're so far ahead of his stacking off range on the flop it's ridiculous and there are tons of scare cards...? Given the pot sized bet (unless that's been standard) he's going to be 3bet shoving the flop a lot and we can insta-fistpump snap call and win money. Which part of that do you disagree with?

3k post - Return of the blog!

aka_red

09-07-2008, 01:41 AM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: house

Posts: 903

for starters there are not a ton of scare cards. you don't know hell b/3b with a flush draw. he could just as easily b/c and c/f bricks. he will still stack off with made hands. making a 5 the only bad card for you. he will always bet the turn after u just flat. he will commit himself with flush draws with less equity than before. and you get a second bet out of air. if he would b/3b the flop with air than he will still do so on the turn vs a min raise.

basically a turn will very likely not change his stack off range or his willingness to stack off. and you will get another bet out of air. and you will always stack a flush draw. while you MIGHT lose some value vs an over pair. note he will still stack off with it if he has a heart and the turn falls heart. also if he has over cards it gives him a chance to catch up.

[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face

spoonitnow

09-07-2008, 01:50 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

I think 3-betting here ever against this opponent is bad.

I'm of the opinion that raising the flop is +EV. However, I think calling the flop is more +EV.

As for hearts on the turn, AhKh, AhQh, AhJh, KhQh, KhJh, QhJh combined are as likely as AA by itself. It's really a non-issue, especially since he will miss most of the time and get in a bigger bet on the turn WAY behind.

A Jack on the turn is a bad card against KQ, but great against AK and AQ since it prompts a double-barrel with possible commitment (for this Villain) with four outs. An Eight on the turn is a bad card against QJ, but great against KQ and KJ for similar reasons. Any Ace, King, Queen are great cards for us for similar reasons.

The Fives suck against JJ+, but the chance that he has JJ+ AND a Five comes on the turn even less significant as a heart on the turn.

Against any Two, Three, Four, Six, or Seven, we give our Villain a chance to double barrel, picking up bets against high-card hands that we would probably not have picked up had we raised the flop.

In any case, basically any hand that stacks off on the flop will stack off on the turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

Fnord

09-07-2008, 09:53 AM

#9 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Put a note on this guy that he loves the bet pot button. Given that pot commits him on the turn, I don't hate flatting as much, but I would raise this flop every time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

badgers

09-07-2008, 10:09 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Spewing

Posts: 3,372

Well I don't agree that you will "always bet the turn" again, and I have no idea why you think he'll call our flp raise then c/f the turn with a flush draw but you think he'll stack off with a FD if you raise turn. Also I think with daven's read there are likely to be more flush draws in his range making it much more of an issue. However, between the two of you you've convinced me a call isn't terrible, I would still raise though.

3k post - Return of the blog!

Fnord

09-07-2008, 10:15 AM

#11 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

WTF is with giving him credit for a flush draw?

He raised pre-flop, putting lots of pairs in his range along with big unsuited and some suited stuff.

I raise because so many turn cards will make an over-pair timid about getting it in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

spoonitnow

09-07-2008, 02:02 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

WTF is with giving him credit for a flush draw?

He raised pre-flop, putting lots of pairs in his range along with big unsuited and some suited stuff.

I raise because so many turn cards will make an over-pair timid about getting it in.

Imo, this is the biggest case for raising the flop.

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:00 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Full Ring NL Hold'em

top two vs aggro unknown

Play for FREE and practice your game at...