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top set meets passively played flopped flush suggestions?

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spino1i

06-24-2005, 02:48 PM Post subject: top set meets passively played flopped flush suggestions?

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: 25/50's f'in hard!

Posts: 893

***** Hand History for Game 2255562870 *****
$200 NL Hold'em - Friday, June 24, 10:50:16 EDT 2005
Table Table 49238 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: muffy4042 ( $197 )
Seat 6: innitm8 ( $169.35 )
Seat 8: Pokerface787 ( $209.35 )
Seat 10: Darsy ( $188.7 )
Seat 9: Kingfish__ ( $208.35 )
Seat 2: HEREFISHIE2 ( $190 )
Seat 5: JackWith1Eye ( $383.68 )
Seat 7: OMAHA23 ( $193.3 )
Seat 4: redbrickwall ( $97 )
Seat 3: IBluff78 ( $100 )
JackWith1Eye posts small blind [$1].
innitm8 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Kingfish__ [ Th Ts ]
OMAHA23 calls [$2].
Pokerface787 folds.
Kingfish__ raises [$6].
Darsy folds.
muffy4042 folds.
HEREFISHIE2 folds.
redbrickwall folds.
JackWith1Eye folds.
>You have options at Table 36682 Table!.
innitm8 folds.
OMAHA23 calls [$4].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Td, 3d, 8d ]
OMAHA23 checks.
Kingfish__ bets [$14.25].
>You have options at Table 36682 Table!.
OMAHA23 calls [$14.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2s ]
OMAHA23 checks.
Kingfish__ bets [$60].
OMAHA23 calls [$60].
** Dealing River ** [ 9h ]
OMAHA23 checks.
Kingfish__ is all-In [$128.1]
OMAHA23 is all-In [$113.05]
OMAHA23 shows [ 9d, Qd ] a flush, queen high.
Kingfish__ shows [ Th, Ts ] three of a kind, tens.
Kingfish__ wins $15.05 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, tens.
OMAHA23 wins $386.6 from the main pot with a flush, queen high.
XXXX
nice hand

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DimitriT

06-24-2005, 02:58 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 614

Not only is there a flush possibility but a straight as well. I can't see going allin with that 9 on the river.

The call on the flop with that board tells me that he at least has a solid flush draw. His big call on the turn may mean he has better than a draw.

When the river kills the apparent flush draw, he may have a busted draw (or maybe not). Here I check and try to trap a bluff. Betting will result in a fold if he busted his draw. In this case, especially with the 9, a check would cause him to either value bet (perhaps $50) or go allin. I would fold to an allin here although I might crying-call the value bet. I think you could've gotten away with about $60-$70 less damage there had you played it passive on the river.

Rondavu

06-24-2005, 03:51 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Ya this was way overplayed. I don't mind your flop bet, but you have to instantly put him on a flush when he calls. You have to respect his position even if he's drawing to a four flush. The board was ten high, and you were looking at three tens. What the hell else is gonna call an overbet of $14, a set over set? Aaaaah not likely. You should have checked the turn and called down only if it was affordable assuming a made flush, and hoping to fill up. Chances are he would have bought you out with a queen high fearing an ace or king. I don't care how strong your hand is. If it's behind, it's behind.

You know when you get that feeling that a check will give your opponent a free drawing card? Sometimes you just gotta let it happen anyway when there's a good possibility you're already beat. If you don't let it happen, then at certain times it can use you. This time you got used by the impulse to make a draw fold at a bad time on the wrong kind of board. A suited board is very advantageous with position, and very dangerous out of position.

Sometimes you have no choice but to let someone draw on you if they represent a made hand by calling a huge flop bet when you're out of position. That's what happened here. You put him on a draw, when it was more likely you were behind, and tried to bully him out. You convinced yourself to go against the odds. Don't even get me started on the river. I think you tilted out of frustration. When someone makes a bet like that I always tell them "Hey dude, there is no 6th street"

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

spino1i

06-24-2005, 03:58 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

A suited board is very advantageous with position, and very dangerous out of position.

Why is this? It seems like a true statement anyhow..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

Sometimes you have no choice but to let someone draw on you if they represent a made hand by calling a huge flop bet when you're out of position. That's what happened here. You put him on a draw, when it was more likely you were behind, and tried to bully him out. You convinced yourself to go against the odds. Don't even get me started on the river. I think you tilted out of frustration. When someone makes a bet like that I always tell them "Hey dude, there is no 6th street"

You mean to say "when they're out of position" right?

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EricE

06-24-2005, 04:47 PM

#5 (permalink)

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I think I would have folded after his call on the flop. I am not sure if that is scared poker or not but I would have the feeling I am beat here.

m3laNcholy

06-24-2005, 05:06 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 232

I think I check the turn and see what he bets. If I think he is milking me I call (despite poor odds to fill up) cause if I do, I take his stack.

Vastly overplayed hand I think.

drmcboy

06-24-2005, 05:25 PM

#7 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,602

You seem to be working on your game and that is great, but unless your BR is just huge it seems to me you might be better off at .5/1. You maybe gave away 60 here on the turn, certainly gave away 120 on the end. No one's calling here unless they beat top set.

Rondavu

06-24-2005, 05:42 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

I think I would have folded after his call on the flop. I am not sure if that is scared poker or not but I would have the feeling I am beat here.

No one is going to put a weak read on you for folding on a suited board.

Quote:

You mean to say "when they're out of position" right?

No I meant when YOU are out of position it's more of a gamble to assume a draw and buy an opponent out. In position you can watch them check to you or make a draw sized bet which could very well mean a slow play, but usually means they're drawing. Calling your huge bet when they have position on you gives little information. Calling a bet after they check to you initially is much more valuable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spino1i

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

A suited board is very advantageous with position, and very dangerous out of position.

Why is this? It seems like a true statement anyhow..

Information is exponentially more important on suited boards, or any scary board for that matter. Another factor is you can leverage the board against any hand with weakness when you have position. For example, the board pops Kc 9c 5c, and someone holds Kd 2h, or Jd 9h. It's going to be much easier to get a fold from these holdings by bluffing strong against them on a suited board. Imagine how valuable this is later in a tourney with high blinds.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

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top set meets passively played flopped flush suggestions?

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