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Top pair and flush draw on flop - suspect I'm behind

  
 
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Borax
Old 01-19-2007, 10:04 PM     Post subject: Top pair and flush draw on flop - suspect I'm behind #1 (permalink)  
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In both these hand I'm up about quite strong players with top pair and a flush draw. I suspect I'm behind but I'm not sure. How should I play the hands?

Hand 1:
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players

Stack sizes:
UTG: $111.25
UTG+1: $296.50
UTG+2: $116.25
MP1: $146.75
MP2: $31.75
MP3: $37.25
CO: $41.25
Button: $99
SB: $39.50
Hero: $109

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with
7 folds, Button raises to $3.5, SB folds, Hero raises to $9, Button calls.

Flop: ($18.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button raises all-in $90, Hero
Read button: SLAA (21.6/5.3)

Hand 2:
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players

Stack sizes:
UTG: $144.50
UTG+1: $102.50
UTG+2: $29.38
MP1: $54.75
MP2: $222.50
MP3: $58
Hero: $94.25
Button: $41.25
SB: $266.62
BB: $104

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is CO with
6 folds, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: ($8.5, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB raises to $24, Hero
Read BB: TA (12.9/6.7)
'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
 
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Miffed22001
Old 01-19-2007, 10:14 PM #2 (permalink)  
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1 is a call, im not folding aces there.
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zenbitz
Old 01-19-2007, 11:29 PM #3 (permalink)  
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1) if your stats are accurate it looks like he has KK/QQ/JJ/AK. Maybe KK pushes pre, maybe not. Since he's not likely to be playing 2 low diamonds, 2 extra outs vs. set.... even if he only pushes QQ with Qd here, you are still ahead ~40% of the time, and don't even need to hit your flush. Gotta call. I would likely fold without the Ad, though.

2) looks like a set. Is he a NIT or could he be making a move? Call or fold, both pretty meh. I don't think a push over has fold equity, but since you win a show down AXd if no diamond hits, I think I just call and see what he does on the turn. He didn't raise quite enough to kill your implied odds. (you have to call 16 with 66 behind, almost 4:1 implied odds).
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Borax
Old 01-20-2007, 11:36 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbitz
1) if your stats are accurate it looks like he has KK/QQ/JJ/AK. Maybe KK pushes pre, maybe not. Since he's not likely to be playing 2 low diamonds, 2 extra outs vs. set.... even if he only pushes QQ with Qd here, you are still ahead ~40% of the time, and don't even need to hit your flush. Gotta call. I would likely fold without the Ad, though.
Thanks for the analysis. Against this oponent I might also fold AA here with no diamond. But he can make moves as well. It's a big push to call though...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbitz
2) looks like a set. Is he a NIT or could he be making a move? Call or fold, both pretty meh. I don't think a push over has fold equity, but since you win a show down AXd if no diamond hits, I think I just call and see what he does on the turn. He didn't raise quite enough to kill your implied odds. (you have to call 16 with 66 behind, almost 4:1 implied odds).
Why would a push not be ok here? The oponent is very tight (12.9), but can lay down quite strong hands. I'm also not confident he would pay off a made flush on the turn, so the implied odds might not be there.
'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
 
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 01-20-2007, 05:38 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I'm never folding top pair and a flush draw ever on any flop, do something to get all the money in.
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zenbitz
Old 01-20-2007, 07:00 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I think a push in hand 2 is good, if you think he's check/raising with worse than a set, but not worse than TPGK (becuase him folding something like QJ or a worse f/d is bad). Since 2 pair hand on this board are quite unlikely, maybe a push is good.
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bigslikk
Old 01-20-2007, 07:02 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: You do not have top pair with a flush draw...

You have overpair with the nut flush draw- only thing that greatly screws you is a lower flush- he'd hafta have 9T diamonds to go for a steal on the button. Hmm. I call, he has a set at best, and there's a good chance he has Qd, or AK or some crap.
 
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Borax
Old 01-20-2007, 09:02 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigslikk
Hand 1: You do not have top pair with a flush draw...

You have overpair with the nut flush draw- only thing that greatly screws you is a lower flush- he'd hafta have 9T diamonds to go for a steal on the button. Hmm. I call, he has a set at best, and there's a good chance he has Qd, or AK or some crap.
You are right.
'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
 
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Borax
Old 01-26-2007, 03:31 PM     Post subject: Re: Top pair and flush draw on flop - suspect I'm behind #9 (permalink)  
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Here is how the two hands ended:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borax
Hand 1:
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players

Stack sizes:
UTG: $111.25
UTG+1: $296.50
UTG+2: $116.25
MP1: $146.75
MP2: $31.75
MP3: $37.25
CO: $41.25
Button: $99
SB: $39.50
Hero: $109

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with
7 folds, Button raises to $3.5, SB folds, Hero raises to $9, Button calls.

Flop: ($18.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button raises all-in $90, Hero
Read button: SLAA (21.6/5.3)
Hero calls.
Turn: ($198.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $198.5)

River: ($198.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $198.5)

Results:
Final pot: $198.5
Button: shows (Three of a kind, Jacks, King high)
Hero: shows (A Pair of Aces, King high)
Button collected $195.50 from Main pot


Quote:
Hand 2:
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players

Stack sizes:
UTG: $144.50
UTG+1: $102.50
UTG+2: $29.38
MP1: $54.75
MP2: $222.50
MP3: $58
Hero: $94.25
Button: $41.25
SB: $266.62
BB: $104

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is CO with
6 folds, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: ($8.5, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB raises to $24, Hero
Read BB: TA (12.9/6.7)
Hero raises all-in $90.25, BB calls.

Turn: ($189, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $189)

River: ($189, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $189)

Results:
Final pot: $189
Hero: shows (Three of a kind, Queens, King high)
BB: shows (A Full House, Fives full of Queens)
BB collected $186 from Main pot
*********************
'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
 
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zenbitz
Old 01-26-2007, 05:17 PM #10 (permalink)  
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On the bizzaro FTR site, someone is posting

Me am hit sets getting paid! So Sad! Hello!
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Borax
Old 01-26-2007, 06:08 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbitz
On the bizzaro FTR site, someone is posting

Me am hit sets getting paid! So Sad! Hello!
'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
 
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