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Borax
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01-19-2007, 10:04 PM
Post subject: Top pair and flush draw on flop - suspect I'm behind
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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In both these hand I'm up about quite strong players with top pair and a flush draw. I suspect I'm behind but I'm not sure. How should I play the hands?
Hand 1:
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players
Stack sizes:
UTG: $111.25
UTG+1: $296.50
UTG+2: $116.25
MP1: $146.75
MP2: $31.75
MP3: $37.25
CO: $41.25
Button: $99
SB: $39.50
Hero: $109
Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with 
7 folds, Button raises to $3.5, SB folds, Hero raises to $9, Button calls.
Flop:   ($18.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button raises all-in $90, Hero
Read button: SLAA (21.6/5.3)
Hand 2:
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players
Stack sizes:
UTG: $144.50
UTG+1: $102.50
UTG+2: $29.38
MP1: $54.75
MP2: $222.50
MP3: $58
Hero: $94.25
Button: $41.25
SB: $266.62
BB: $104
Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is CO with 
6 folds, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, BB calls.
Flop:   ($8.5, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB raises to $24, Hero
Read BB: TA (12.9/6.7)
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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1 is a call, im not folding aces there.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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1) if your stats are accurate it looks like he has KK/QQ/JJ/AK. Maybe KK pushes pre, maybe not. Since he's not likely to be playing 2 low diamonds, 2 extra outs vs. set.... even if he only pushes QQ with Qd here, you are still ahead ~40% of the time, and don't even need to hit your flush. Gotta call. I would likely fold without the Ad, though.
2) looks like a set. Is he a NIT or could he be making a move? Call or fold, both pretty meh. I don't think a push over has fold equity, but since you win a show down AXd if no diamond hits, I think I just call and see what he does on the turn. He didn't raise quite enough to kill your implied odds. (you have to call 16 with 66 behind, almost 4:1 implied odds).
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Borax
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
1) if your stats are accurate it looks like he has KK/QQ/JJ/AK. Maybe KK pushes pre, maybe not. Since he's not likely to be playing 2 low diamonds, 2 extra outs vs. set.... even if he only pushes QQ with Qd here, you are still ahead ~40% of the time, and don't even need to hit your flush. Gotta call. I would likely fold without the Ad, though.
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Thanks for the analysis. Against this oponent I might also fold AA here with no diamond. But he can make moves as well. It's a big push to call though...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
2) looks like a set. Is he a NIT or could he be making a move? Call or fold, both pretty meh. I don't think a push over has fold equity, but since you win a show down AXd if no diamond hits, I think I just call and see what he does on the turn. He didn't raise quite enough to kill your implied odds. (you have to call 16 with 66 behind, almost 4:1 implied odds).
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Why would a push not be ok here? The oponent is very tight (12.9), but can lay down quite strong hands. I'm also not confident he would pay off a made flush on the turn, so the implied odds might not be there.
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'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I'm never folding top pair and a flush draw ever on any flop, do something to get all the money in.
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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I think a push in hand 2 is good, if you think he's check/raising with worse than a set, but not worse than TPGK (becuase him folding something like QJ or a worse f/d is bad). Since 2 pair hand on this board are quite unlikely, maybe a push is good.
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bigslikk
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 445
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Hand 1: You do not have top pair with a flush draw...
You have overpair with the nut flush draw- only thing that greatly screws you is a lower flush- he'd hafta have 9T diamonds to go for a steal on the button. Hmm. I call, he has a set at best, and there's a good chance he has Qd, or AK or some crap.
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Borax
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigslikk
Hand 1: You do not have top pair with a flush draw...
You have overpair with the nut flush draw- only thing that greatly screws you is a lower flush- he'd hafta have 9T diamonds to go for a steal on the button. Hmm. I call, he has a set at best, and there's a good chance he has Qd, or AK or some crap.
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You are right.
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'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
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Borax
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01-26-2007, 03:31 PM
Post subject: Re: Top pair and flush draw on flop - suspect I'm behind
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#9 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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Here is how the two hands ended:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Borax
Hand 1:
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
10 players
Stack sizes:
UTG: $111.25
UTG+1: $296.50
UTG+2: $116.25
MP1: $146.75
MP2: $31.75
MP3: $37.25
CO: $41.25
Button: $99
SB: $39.50
Hero: $109
Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with 
7 folds, Button raises to $3.5, SB folds, Hero raises to $9, Button calls.
Flop:    ($18.5, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, Button raises all-in $90, Hero
Read button: SLAA (21.6/5.3)
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Hero calls.
Turn: ($198.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $198.5)
River: ($198.5, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $198.5)
Results:
Final pot: $198.5
Button: shows  (Three of a kind, Jacks, King high)
Hero: shows  (A Pair of Aces, King high)
Button collected $195.50 from Main pot
Hero raises all-in $90.25, BB calls.
Turn: ($189, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $189)
River: ($189, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $189)
Results:
Final pot: $189
Hero: shows  (Three of a kind, Queens, King high)
BB: shows  (A Full House, Fives full of Queens)
BB collected $186 from Main pot
*********************
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'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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On the bizzaro FTR site, someone is posting
Me am hit sets getting paid! So Sad! Hello!
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Borax
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
On the bizzaro FTR site, someone is posting
Me am hit sets getting paid! So Sad! Hello!
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'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
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