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a toolkit for weak tables

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daven

05-25-2008, 12:04 PM Post subject: a toolkit for weak tables

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,807

playing weak tables...
requires a whole different skill-set than playing TAG-fish...

I'm playing everest 50nl and the level of play there is overall weak - especially at weekends!, but I'm losing. While at the same time I'm comfortably ahead at the allegedly tougher full tilt. Some of the things I need to re-learn are the very things I had to evolve from while moving up from 5nl to where I am now (50nl, sometimes 100nl), others the same but exaggerated.

Anyway, I'm only 8-tabling at the moment and I'm well caffeined , so time to collect some scattered thoughts

In weak games, don't bother with things like:
* defending blinds (almost nobody is stealing, forget about them)
* assigning tight ranges - people play 79s cos they like it, don't discount hands from ranges.
* appropriate c-bet sizing, no need. C-bet 10% of pot and the auto folders still fold
* bothering to keep betsizing consistent to mask your range - nobody is noticing
* thinking that people aren't stupid enough to call pot-sized bets with gutshots, of course they will
* betting for value on the river, don't bother. Push for value, people love to call
* playing a classically tag range - 18-8 will work fine

in weak games:
* distinguish autofolders from autocallers
* position is even more than everything - button abuse, it's even more important. Limp along with 79s!
* suckouts and tilt control are the name of the game- the fishier the players the harder the suckouts. Gotta be tough and over-rolled
* trust strong play to be what it represents itself as
* don't bother trying to represent any kind of weakness to induce action, they won't auto steal the pot on a checked turn
* your edge pre-flop is often discounted by schooling - your edge postflop is huge - especially the abilities to fold and to call with pot odds. Postflop is where the money is to be made
* double-barrel less

These lists will grow... Please add to them - comments welcome

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

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jimmyc

05-25-2008, 01:01 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 23

[QUOTE="daven"]
* bothering to keep betsizing consistent to mask your range - nobody is noticing

I don't like this, these people might be weak, but they're not completely stupid - all it takes is a showdown or 2 and others will catch on to your betting patterns. Remember humans love to assign patterns, and they're still humans - just!

dev

05-25-2008, 05:19 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: swonging and swonging

Posts: 1,550

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyc

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

* bothering to keep betsizing consistent to mask your range - nobody is noticing

I don't like this, these people might be weak, but they're not completely stupid - all it takes is a showdown or 2 and others will catch on to your betting patterns. Remember humans love to assign patterns, and they're still humans - just!

I think what he's trying to say here is that while some players on an extremely weak table may be able to spot this stuff, the small edge you give to them is significantly less than the edge you take from fish by brazenly playing your hand to maximize EV.

Also, it's a complex game, even the better players at these limits probably wont fully understand some basic EV plays. Camouflage isn't worth it's length in letters.

nh Daven.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

jimmyc

05-26-2008, 05:15 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2008

Posts: 23

good point

Fnord

05-26-2008, 07:22 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Balance is over-rated. Just make the play you think will make you the most money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Robb

05-26-2008, 12:14 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,072

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Balance is over-rated. Just make the play you think will make you the most money.

Sitting to the left of a 68/0/1.1 whale (who was somehow 500 bb deep, thank God) for 200 hands last night, five times in a row I fired a 3x PSB on the river when I picked up the nuts with the last card. They were small pots he turned into medium-sized ones with calls. On the fifth 60bb massive river overbet, he starts folding. Which sucked.

My Operation and FTR Rethread: Stations are *sob* so hard to play against

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