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Too optimistic or standard ?

  
 
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ShakaZuluf
Old 06-23-2008, 10:13 AM     Post subject: Too optimistic or standard ? #1 (permalink)  

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Hi !

Well, this is the type of situation where I find myself frequently and I am not quite sure what is the correct play. Opponent is unknown and I haven't been in any pot with him so far but seems fairly tight and decent and I really wasn't sure if I was ahead on flop but pushed anyway.
So, in general, should I avoid such 100bb stack confrontations with just an overpair and wait for a better situation to push and is my line with jacks and bet sizing here any good?

Thank you for all your help and sorry if my english is bad.Cheers


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($9.85)
Button ($9.85)
SB ($16.30)
Hero ($12)
UTG ($8.25)
MP1 ($10)
MP2 ($13.30)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J.
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, MP2 raises to $0.4, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.2, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.80.

Flop: ($2.55) 3, 7, 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, MP2 raises to $5, Hero raises to $10.8, MP2 calls $5.80.

Turn: ($24.15) 4 (2 players)

River: ($24.15) K (2 players)

Final Pot: $24.15
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ShakaZuluf
Old 06-23-2008, 10:17 AM #2 (permalink)  

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BTW, what do you think about opponents most likely holding here ?
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Monty3038
Old 06-23-2008, 11:43 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I find the JJ combo difficult to play. It is a good starting hand but when faced with stiff opposition I usually fold it away. You are holding top pair based on the board, but with him to come in with 4xBB then call, raise, call, he feels he has you beat, without the reads on the player I have to believe him, I let it go.
 
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Muzzard
Old 06-23-2008, 11:58 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Ths is really villain dependant, vs someone who is passive asnd weak it's probably a set. But versus a more agressive opponent or someone who is trappy pre this could easily be QQ+ or spome kind of draw.

I don't hate this, but equally I dont love it. As I say it's really depenandt upon reads/stats... it looks lilke you have neither apart from 'he's good and tight.
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badgers
Old 06-23-2008, 02:47 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
So, in general, should I avoid such 100bb stack confrontations with just an overpair and wait for a better situation to push and is my line with jacks and bet sizing here any good?
stop thinking so generally, get some reads. poker is completely situationally dependant so there is no correct answer to this question.
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ShakaZuluf
Old 06-23-2008, 10:19 PM #6 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Ths is really villain dependant, vs someone who is passive asnd weak it's probably a set. But versus a more agressive opponent or someone who is trappy pre this could easily be QQ+ or spome kind of draw.

I don't hate this, but equally I dont love it. As I say it's really depenandt upon reads/stats... it looks lilke you have neither apart from 'he's good and tight.
[quote]I find the JJ combo difficult to play. It is a good starting hand but when faced with stiff opposition I usually fold it away. You are holding top pair based on the board, but with him to come in with 4xBB then call, raise, call, he feels he has you beat, without the reads on the player I have to believe him, I let it go.


Right, agree completely, the more I think about this situation the more It seems marginal. So is there really much point in 3 betting JJ when it mostly leads to such tough spots. Would flat call and evaluation on the flop (with a smaller pot) be a better line with jacks ?

Badgers,good point, however I am not looking for a rigid general rule I would apply in every situation, just a rule of thumb: in such tough spots without any reads should be more eager to fold than push all in ?

Thx for all the feedback and help guys
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Keilah
Old 06-24-2008, 12:47 AM #7 (permalink)  
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In general I prefer flatting JJ to 3betting, depends on position and villain.

In this spot I think he uuuuusually has you beat.
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Unibomber14
Old 06-24-2008, 12:54 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I think I'm generally going to push here. In my experience, I see a lot of people protecting a drawing hand like AdKd or the like. I think the only hand he is likely to have that beats you is 88. I could be wrong though.
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bikes
Old 06-24-2008, 01:19 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 Pitch it, you're either flipping or screwed.

And I lean towards flatting JJ depending on the dependant stuff.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-24-2008, 01:25 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Fnord
Old 06-24-2008, 02:11 AM #11 (permalink)  
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