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Miffed22001
Old 09-23-2008, 09:01 PM     Post subject: Tonights Standard #1 (permalink)  
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 hand 1.
Opponent is the very well known capaneo; 24/19 spewbucket. Two things:
1. WTF 3bet size?
2. How do we extract best, call/4bet/shove?

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (7 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($223.15)
Hero (MP1) ($200)
MP2 ($212.40)
CO ($215.15)
Button ($253.45)
SB ($198.60)
BB ($123.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, K
1 fold, Hero raises $6, MP2 raises $30, 4 folds, Hero ???

Hand 2.
A spot i play badly. Villain has just sat, posted blind in MP and has done nothing yet, sat with his stack i believe (not 100bbs buy in)

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (7 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($44)
Button ($34.60)
SB ($198)
BB ($356.20)
UTG ($67.90)
MP1 ($125.60)
Hero (MP2) ($213.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q, Q
1 fold, MP1 raises $6, Hero raises $26, 1 fold, Button raises $34.60 (All-In), 2 folds, MP1 raises $54, Hero finds a fold?

Hand3.
Opp is SwooshOU, decent regular, probably just a nit rather than good and not 2p2 that i know of.
Is this ever AJ/AK? or do i seriously muck?

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (8 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($219.75)
MP1 ($295.55)
MP2 ($229)
CO ($209.10)
Button ($74.75)
SB ($145.75)
BB ($201.30)
Hero (UTG) ($202)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6, 6
Hero raises $6, 1 fold, MP1 calls $6, 4 folds, BB calls $4

Flop: ($19) A, 6, J (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $13, 1 fold, BB calls $13

Turn: ($45) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $30, BB raises $100, Hero can feel the puke building...

Hand 4.
Opp is our very own Pgil, 3 betting me lots in lp. Couple hands before i beated him with AJs vs KK after he squeezed (in position i believe)
Fwiw, i wouldnt raise AA/TT/spades or anything on this flop, but almost always shove turn. Thoughts on bet sizing?

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($198)
BB ($200)
UTG ($446.80)
UTG+1 ($55.75)
MP1 ($102.70)
MP2 ($185)
MP3 ($203)
Hero (CO) ($293.20)
Button ($170.05)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, 10
5 folds, Hero raises $6, Button raises $18, 2 folds, Hero calls $12

Flop: ($39) 9, 2, 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $24, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($87) A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($87) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $46, Button calls $46

Total pot: $179
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badgers
Old 09-23-2008, 09:36 PM #2 (permalink)  
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hand 1 idk what cap is doing here. I remember when I played him HU he 4bet ridic big with JJ idk if that's relevant, maybe he likes to do it with marginal hands. fwiw i don't think cap 3bets a lot and is probably going to have quite a nitty range in this spot of maybe JJ sometimes and QQ+/AK depending on how much you've been warring. I'd like to just 4bet because he is a decent handreader imo and you're clearly not calling this 3bet for set value so it's quite clear what you have if you call and c/r.

hand 2 perfect if you fistpump

hand 3 ugh it's so annoying cos it's not hard to put him squarely on JJ a hell of a lot and sometimes he can turn up witht AA here... Whatever, I'm just going to shove because he's basically only repping one hand and I don't like to fold when his range is so narrow and he only needs to be bluffing a tiny percentage of the time (given how wide his range is compared to what he's repping) or have AJs for this to be ok.

Hand 4 I'd just fold preflop because he's only got a 85BB stack. If he had 100BBs I'd consider 4bet bluffing as a way of fighting back or I might move tables since I don't want someone with a grudge against me on my left. As played flop/turn are std, bet an amount on the river you think QQ will call, $46 is ok I guess I'd probs go a little more like $58.
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bigspenda73
Old 09-23-2008, 09:36 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 I usually call in 1 and c/bomb the flop

I dont think I could ever fold 66, I'll convince myself it has to be AJ and not JJ.

Last hand, I'm not sure he's ever calling on this river, I mean, you included he did, but I don't get what in the world he's supposed to look you up with that checked the turn. I like going big, because I don't know if he calls $46 any more than he calls $66.
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bigspenda73
Old 09-23-2008, 09:49 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 4bet bluffing JTs has to be an awful move with this 3bet size
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badgers
Old 09-23-2008, 09:54 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
4bet bluffing JTs has to be an awful move with this 3bet size
Why? Small 3bet = more room to manouvre and we need to put less of our stack in to get him to fold all of his 3bet bluffs if we don't expect him to bluff shove. If you think it's awful because this raise size is indicative of great strength then surely we should just fold because we are OOP and our implied odds aren't that great.
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Deanglow
Old 09-23-2008, 10:42 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Don't fold any of these and I don't see how you could go wrong.
 
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Miffed22001
Old 09-24-2008, 12:49 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
hand 1 idk what cap is doing here. I remember when I played him HU he 4bet ridic big with JJ idk if that's relevant, maybe he likes to do it with marginal hands. fwiw i don't think cap 3bets a lot and is probably going to have quite a nitty range in this spot of maybe JJ sometimes and QQ+/AK depending on how much you've been warring. I'd like to just 4bet because he is a decent handreader imo and you're clearly not calling this 3bet for set value so it's quite clear what you have if you call and c/r.

hand 2 perfect if you fistpump

hand 3 ugh it's so annoying cos it's not hard to put him squarely on JJ a hell of a lot and sometimes he can turn up witht AA here... Whatever, I'm just going to shove because he's basically only repping one hand and I don't like to fold when his range is so narrow and he only needs to be bluffing a tiny percentage of the time (given how wide his range is compared to what he's repping) or have AJs for this to be ok.

Hand 4 I'd just fold preflop because he's only got a 85BB stack. If he had 100BBs I'd consider 4bet bluffing as a way of fighting back or I might move tables since I don't want someone with a grudge against me on my left. As played flop/turn are std, bet an amount on the river you think QQ will call, $46 is ok I guess I'd probs go a little more like $58.
Interesting read on capaneo.
Btw we have no history, other than one of the first ever 1/2 hands i played i 4bet bluffed a flop with 87s (fd) and he called with top set and i badbeated him, but i doubt he remembers that.
If i shove KK do you think thats bad?
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badgers
Old 09-24-2008, 01:03 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Nope I think shoving is fine, however I would still rather just 4bet/ call, though I think the results are basically identical unless he's tilting. His image is so bad that unless you're a complete nit he has to stack off with QQ if you shove and also if you 4bet. I think he probably shoves AK over a 4bet more often than he calls a shove with it but I may be off.
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Fnord
Old 09-24-2008, 01:23 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: Hand is too good not to 4-ball. Got to protect your bluffs.
Hand 2: Felt
Hand 3: Putting him on exactly JJ here? It's online, I'd felt it.
Hand 4: He's paying off with Ax, so value town him harder. At least $60, would consider a push.
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pgil
Old 09-24-2008, 01:41 AM #10 (permalink)  
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capaneo has been 3betting me quite a bit, and usually quite big, about that size. C/bomb flop looks good, because I don't think he ever checks behind flops, but will probably be suspicious come the turn.

Hand 4, IIRC the KK hand was right before this one, and was a very good river bet size against me, because I am a payoff wizard.
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Miffed22001
Old 09-24-2008, 08:04 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgil
capaneo has been 3betting me quite a bit, and usually quite big, about that size. C/bomb flop looks good, because I don't think he ever checks behind flops, but will probably be suspicious come the turn.

Hand 4, IIRC the KK hand was right before this one, and was a very good river bet size against me, because I am a payoff wizard.
i didnt think you would level yourself into a call in the last hand or i would have shoved (especially after i just beated you) so i expected a nitty fold hence the value bet

I 4bet/calls shove in 1 and he showed me AA, rinse and repeat EXACTLY the same very next hand too
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Keilah
Old 09-25-2008, 04:04 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 I'd 4bet, I've unfortunately just read your latest response so my brain is tainted, but I've noticed a lot of loose players 3-betting bigger than normal with the nuts; regardless, I'm going with QQ. Would be happier with AK for the blockers.

Hand 2 wtf easy shove

Hand 3 sucks so much ;[ It's so hard to fold 66 but a reg pretty much always has JJ here... in the moment I'm sure I'd call it, but here on the forum I advocate a fold.

Hand 4 I'd bet a little more, your size only gets extra value from maybe QQ/JJ IMO.
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bigspenda73
Old 09-25-2008, 04:15 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 why do we 4bet hand 1?
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Keilah
Old 09-25-2008, 05:59 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Like Fnord said, we have to protect our bluffs with real hands.

Also QQ is ahead of his 3bet range and does well enough vs his call/shove range, which obv includes AK and some bluffs, also maybe TT/JJ, i don't know this guy.
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Miffed22001
Old 09-25-2008, 07:07 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
why do we 4bet hand 1?
you think shoving is better?
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bigspenda73
Old 09-25-2008, 07:57 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 I like calling

guess I are fish

You said he's spewy, so I figure even though you're flatting a huge 3bet OOP he's not necessarily going to go ZOMG KK+.
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elipsesjeff
Old 09-25-2008, 01:01 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I like calling

guess I are fish

You said he's spewy, so I figure even though you're flatting a huge 3bet OOP he's not necessarily going to go ZOMG KK+.
I doubt we flat much OOP against this guy nearly as much as we would IP. We give him a chance to make a mistake for his stack when we 4bet if he has AK/JJ+ here and rarely get more than a cbet from him postflop with that same range if we flat OOP.

I agree with everyone else on the other hands. I don't hate a 4bet with JTs here although I'm not a fan calling OOP either. If villain's been 3betting us a ton then the 4bet will def be profitable.


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bigspenda73
Old 09-25-2008, 08:49 PM #18 (permalink)  
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 oh yea, 4betting tiny in 1 is def. better than shoving, allows him to spew a bit if he wants to.
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Miffed22001
Old 09-25-2008, 09:02 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
oh yea, 4betting tiny in 1 is def. better than shoving, allows him to spew a bit if he wants to.
i thought if he had a TT_QQ hand hed snap call a shove and might muck to a tiny 4 bet (vs my image tiny 4bet reps lots of strength)
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STHollywood
Old 09-25-2008, 09:11 PM #20 (permalink)  
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am i wrong to think that hand 4 is a fold pre?
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