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05-30-2005, 03:13 PM
Post subject: Tightest of tight decisions
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#1 (permalink)
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Villain is 26.47% VP$IP and 14.71% PFR through only 34 hands.
He has a passion for spontaniously pushing all in preflop, had done it at least 3 times before in an unraised or small raised pot.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) converter
Button ($9.75)
Hero ($14.15)
BB (Villain) ($13.30)
UTG ($1.95)
MP1 ($5.50)
MP2 ($9.90)
CO ($6.85)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , K .
UTG calls $0.10, 4 folds, Hero raises to $0.55, BB (Villain) raises to $13.4, UTG folds, Hero folds.
Final Pot: $14.05
Results in white below:
No showdown. Villain wins $14.05.
Am I giving him too much respect here? As I said, each and every one of the 14% he has made a PFR has been a push.
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FishMagician
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 206
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I call without hesitation
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scgolfer
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 629
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Not too sound crazy, but a bunch of simple bots are coded to do this, in low limit NL limp all small pp, push pf with AA KK QQ AK. Sound crazy? Was he ever called with his pf push, to be able to see his cards?
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Holy crap I cant play against Yoda!!
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FishMagician
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 206
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I think 14.71% is 5 all-ins in 34 hands right? I guess it's possible that he got aa/kk/qq/ak 5 times but it's unlikely.
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SmackinYaUp
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
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I dont think that calling and hoping for a coinflip at best is a good way to make money. AK is a pretty good hand and all and the guy does seem like an idiot, but I'd just pass on this one and wait until you can see a few more hands with him and trap him later or re-evaluate his play.
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He who drinks beer sleeps well.
He who sleeps well cannot sin.
He who does not sin goes to Heaven.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Profiling opponents in low limit games is totally useless. You wont play enough hands against the same opponents to make the stats anywhere near meaningfull, instead it will likely just mislead you intomaking decisions you otherwise would not.
That said, if someone is repeatedly pushing pre flop, then call with AK.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by scgolfer
Not too sound crazy, but a bunch of simple bots are coded to do this, in low limit NL limp all small pp, push pf with AA KK QQ AK. Sound crazy? Was he ever called with his pf push, to be able to see his cards?
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He pushed a total of 6 times, got called 3 times.
Lost with AQs, won with KK, and lost with ( ) 44.
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SmackinYaUp
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Profiling opponents in low limit games is totally useless
That said, if someone is repeatedly pushing pre flop, then call with AK.
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lol
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He who drinks beer sleeps well.
He who sleeps well cannot sin.
He who does not sin goes to Heaven.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Profiling opponents in low limit games is totally useless
That said, if someone is repeatedly pushing pre flop, then call with AK.
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lol |
Pokertracker stats don't tell you if your opponents is going all in every hand, it just gives a pre flop raise%. I didn't say that you shoud stop observing your opponent and reacting to their play, just that those pokertracker numbers are pretty useless for so few hands.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cocco_Bill
Profiling opponents in low limit games is totally useless
That said, if someone is repeatedly pushing pre flop, then call with AK.
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lol |
PokerTracker stats don't tell you if your opponents is going all in every hand, it just gives a pre flop raise%. I didn't say that you shoud stop observing your opponent and reacting to their play, just that those PokerTracker numbers are pretty useless for so few hands. |
Pushing all in preflop for around 150xBB 6 times in 34 hands does make me raise an eyebrow.
PT does tell me how often he is pushing all in, I can just look up the hand histories (they store them all).
I'm thinking along the same lines as scgolfer, that guy could well be a bot. He never used the chatbox, even when he was spoken to, and all of his actions were instant.
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Cocco_Bill
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,254
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sounds like a pretty crappy bot, I'm all for bots if they donate money like this
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FishMagician
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
I dont think that calling and hoping for a coinflip at best is a good way to make money. AK is a pretty good hand and all and the guy does seem like an idiot, but I'd just pass on this one and wait until you can see a few more hands with him and trap him later or re-evaluate his play.
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If he's pushed 6 times in 35 hands I don't think this is a coinflip at best. He could easily have a weaker ace or weaker king. If someone repeatedly pushes all in, what hands do you make a stand with? Only AA-QQ?
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SmackinYaUp
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FishMagician
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
I dont think that calling and hoping for a coinflip at best is a good way to make money. AK is a pretty good hand and all and the guy does seem like an idiot, but I'd just pass on this one and wait until you can see a few more hands with him and trap him later or re-evaluate his play.
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If he's pushed 6 times in 35 hands I don't think this is a coinflip at best. He could easily have a weaker ace or weaker king. If someone repeatedly pushes all in, what hands do you make a stand with? Only AA-QQ? |
Sure it might be slightly +EV but I dont really see the point in taking coinflips for my entire buyin preflop with AK. He could be up against Q9, 72, TT or all kinds of other shit that is basically a coinflip. Its going to piss you off the 45% of the time you lose your buyin to someone who's just gambling. If you dont mind the variance then go for it, but I'd rather call with 88 over AK. Remember when calling you only have one way to win the pot which is having the best hand at showdown.
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He who drinks beer sleeps well.
He who sleeps well cannot sin.
He who does not sin goes to Heaven.
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FishMagician
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 206
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Point taken.
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Nugunz
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: BG
Posts: 55
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maybe its just me, but I fold here. AA and KK beat you, and any other PP is a coinflip. I think AQ and AJ are unlikely holdings. why gamble all your chips on a draw at best? your hand isn't even suited..
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Do you wanna toss up 150 bb on a flip? It's breakeven.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by nUgen
maybe its just me, but I fold here. AA and KK beat you, and any other PP is a coinflip. I think AQ and AJ are unlikely holdings. why gamble all your chips on a draw at best? your hand isn't even suited..
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I think any AX is a likely holding myself.
G00t post SmackinYaUp, that's exactly why I folded, I didn't want my AK to go up against a PP or 2 random undercards without first seeing a flop, that is why I folded.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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If a guy is consistently pushing pre-flop (once or twice per orbit?) with probable mediocre hands, I think you have two choices:
1. call with AK
2. leave the game
Why continue donating a larger-than-usual portion of your blinds and pre-flop pots to this guy? Not to mention the fact that if you raise ahead of him (as happened here) he's stealing that money straight from you. He's obviously pushing with any pocket pair as well as some junk like AQ and probably AJ. There's a good chance you'll have him dominated when you call, a decent chance it will be a coinflip with overs vs. a low pair, and a small chance you're in bad shape vs. aces or kings. I'm not saying you have to make this call, but I am saying that staying at a table with this guy will cost you money if you DON'T make this call. Unless of course you're lucky enough to get a top three hand the next time he pushes.
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Borax
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
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I played two players like this recently. One guy played a "normal" solid game but would allways push All in preflop with KK or AA. The logic (from his chat) seemed to be that he was tired of loosing to bad hands calling smaller bets preflop. The other guy was just pushing his luck and trying to double his small stack. I even called him with A2 after seeing him push preflop with 83s earlier. He showed 22 and took my 8$ though 
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Call. You need to gamble to build your stack past the max buyin if he's going keep playing like this.
(Adds token "do you see why?")
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
If a guy is consistently pushing pre-flop (once or twice per orbit?) with probable mediocre hands, I think you have two choices:
1. call with AK
2. leave the game
Why continue donating a larger-than-usual portion of your blinds and pre-flop pots to this guy? Not to mention the fact that if you raise ahead of him (as happened here) he's stealing that money straight from you. He's obviously pushing with any pocket pair as well as some junk like AQ and probably AJ. There's a good chance you'll have him dominated when you call, a decent chance it will be a coinflip with overs vs. a low pair, and a small chance you're in bad shape vs. aces or kings. I'm not saying you have to make this call, but I am saying that staying at a table with this guy will cost you money if you DON'T make this call. Unless of course you're lucky enough to get a top three hand the next time he pushes.
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Very good point, I appreciate this post a lot.
I can't be waiting around for a top two hand on this table, I should've left long before and found a better, more loose/passive table.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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I'm with coop here.
Smack, if you're calling him with 88, you probably are the small favorite on a coin flip with him holding overcards...I don't see much difference.
Guys like this I'm calling with a medium pair or better. Definitely with AK. The guy is dominated so often, and the rest of the time a coin flip.
I'll call here.
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