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Though call

  
 
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fat-b
Old 12-05-2005, 11:02 PM     Post subject: Though call #1 (permalink)  
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Full Tilt Poker Game #322236006: Table Phil Ivey - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:42:01 ET - 2005/12/05
Seat 1: smalltimer1038 ($140), is sitting out
Seat 2: 11-Dallas-11 ($31.05)
Seat 3: Rubicon ($195)
Seat 4: ingy ($152.35)
Seat 6: darkknyt ($348.90)
Seat 7: Bukowski ($99)
Seat 8: WTF_NotAgain ($100)
Seat 9: samemann ($81.15)
samemann posts the small blind of $1
11-Dallas-11 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to samemann [6c 6h]
Rubicon calls $2
ingy folds
darkknyt folds
Bukowski raises to $8
smalltimer1038 has returned
samemann calls $7
11-Dallas-11 folds
Rubicon folds
*** FLOP *** [Ts 3s 6s]
11-Dallas-11 stands up
samemann checks
Bukowski bets $15
samemann calls $15
*** TURN *** [Ts 3s 6s] [8c]
samemann checks
Bukowski bets $59
samemann calls $58.15, and is all in
Bukowski shows [Jc Jd]
samemann shows [6c 6h]
Uncalled bet of $0.85 returned to Bukowski
*** RIVER *** [Ts 3s 6s 8c] [3c]
Bukowski shows two pair, Jacks and Threes
samemann shows a full house, Sixes full of Threes
samemann wins the pot ($163.30) with a full house, Sixes full of Threes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $166.30 | Rake $3
Board: [Ts 3s 6s 8c 3c]
Seat 1: smalltimer1038 is sitting out
Seat 2: 11-Dallas-11 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Rubicon folded before the Flop
Seat 4: ingy didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: darkknyt didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Bukowski (button) showed [Jc Jd] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Threes

Was thinking bout checkraising on the flop or turn, but i had the read of a high PP. The 3 spades on the flop scared me. Was a though call on the turn, but it worked out.
Did i missplayed this hand?
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Miffed22001
Old 12-05-2005, 11:42 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 A touch out of my range at 200nl but im all in there too.
I guess you pay a premium sooted hand tht flops the flush
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Fnord
Old 12-05-2005, 11:51 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Fold pre-flop. You're out of position and the money isn't deep enough.

Post-flop, meh. No matter what your opponent has a spade on the turn will be very bad for you. Hence, I try to get it all-in on the flop. No real standard way to do that. Check/min-raise (push turn), and bet/re-raise are pretty good lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
I guess you pay a premium sooted hand tht flops the flush
At some point we take our thumb out of our mouth and stop seeing monsters under the bed...
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ChrisBCritter
Old 12-06-2005, 06:53 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
A touch out of my range at 200nl but im all in there too.
I guess you pay a premium sooted hand tht flops the flush
AKs would bet for value here, not try and push you out of the pot.

This line is too loose weak/passive for me.

Fold Pre-flop to that raise OOP.
Bet or Check-raise (NOT a min-raise) that flop. (check/call bad) Be wary of AKs smooth calling here.
Bet the (non-spade)turn hard if we've made it this far. (JJ probably folded the flop re-raise, AKs will smooth call again, maybe raise at this point)
Push your boat on the river (you are shortstacked anyways, AKs will call)

You're hand is greatly disguised here from your PF call, but you need to be much more aggressive IMO with a relatively scary flop like that to chase the guy with :As: out.
Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
 
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bdawg56kg
Old 12-06-2005, 07:46 AM #5 (permalink)  
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I think the preflop call is meh. If you think there's a good chance of stacking him if you hit a set, then I think calling is okay. On the flop however, I would follow Fnord's advice. I would probably check raise all in on this flop, since any healthy sized CR commits you anyway, and no way in hell am I laying this down on the flop in fear of a flush or higher set. The all in CR also gives terrible drawing odds to villian if he has something like AA or KK with the A or K of spades, but at the same time the overbet looks so suspicious that most times villian will insta-call with AA or KK (or any overpair for that matter), probably even without a spade. Villian's short stack makes this hand easy to play IMO.
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Fnord
Old 12-06-2005, 07:56 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
I think the preflop call is meh. If you think there's a good chance of stacking him if you hit a set, then I think calling is okay.
It's a break even call at best, more likely around a -$4-6ish of expectation. Unless you plan to play out of position without a set nor read sometimes. I did the math on this a looooong time ago. Use the search function. If you refute those findings we'll talk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
On the flop however, I would follow Fnord's advice. I would probably check raise all in on this flop, since any healthy sized CR commits you anyway, and no way in hell am I laying this down on the flop in fear of a flush or higher set.
c/ring enough to pot-strike him has the same effect and is more likely to get called by a player who can't think ahead to the next street. Just shoving might spook him off. Again, no read sucks, but given the quality of the pre-flop decision and his stack size I'm not surprised he's playing three figure pots the way most posters around here like to play two figure pots. In the dark against an unknown opponent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Lukie
Old 12-06-2005, 07:57 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdawg56kg
I think the preflop call is meh. If you think there's a good chance of stacking him if you hit a set, then I think calling is okay. On the flop however, I would follow Fnord's advice. I would probably check raise all in on this flop, since any healthy sized CR commits you anyway, and no way in hell am I laying this down on the flop in fear of a flush or higher set. The all in CR also gives terrible drawing odds to villian if he has something like AA or KK with the A or K of spades, but at the same time the overbet looks so suspicious that most times villian will insta-call with AA or KK (or any overpair for that matter), probably even without a spade. Villian's short stack makes this hand easy to play IMO.
To make the preflop call worth it, hero has to stack him pretty much everytime he hits. Let's be realistic.. that doesn't happen.
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bdawg56kg
Old 12-06-2005, 08:31 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
It's a break even call at best, more likely around a -$4-6ish of expectation. Unless you plan to play out of position without a set nor read sometimes. I did the math on this a looooong time ago. Use the search function. If you refute those findings we'll talk.
Alright, cool I submit. You reasoning makes sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
c/ring enough to pot-strike him has the same effect and is more likely to get called by a player who can't think ahead to the next street. Just shoving might spook him off.
Hmmm. I might disagree here. I find that situations when a player makes a bet that leaves either himself or yourself with something ridiculous like 1/5 your remaining stack are scarier than open pushing. Maybe that's just me though. The main thing is our intentions are the same thing.

Edit: I think your logic about not shoving would probably be more effictive against a fish than a thinking player. Correct?
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