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A textbook example of why to call raises with small PP

  
 
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TylerK
Old 12-09-2004, 11:54 PM     Post subject: A textbook example of why to call raises with small PP #1 (permalink)  
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Ignore the quads as the 4th one was pretty much irrelevant. Note that the criteria are met: a raise from a large stack, me with position. I dunno why he didn't fold when I raised on the flop, but I like it. I didn't worry about the straight...if he had raised PF with T9 and managed to hit that flop, more power to him.

***** Hand History for Game 1280410936 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Thursday, December 09, 19:47:25 EDT 2004
Table Magic Hands (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Newpotato ( $47.72 )
Seat 2: friendol ( $23.75 )
Seat 3: dudu_butter ( $19.75 )
Seat 4: gusalot ( $6.7 )
Seat 5: HellaMannn ( $41.5 )
Seat 7: Ludus ( $22.9 )
Seat 8: TylerK_ ( $46.65 )
Seat 10: Fanatic_P ( $12.75 )
Seat 9: Baroombah ( $14.75 )
Seat 6: jeremyliu510 ( $22.95 )
Fanatic_P posts small blind [$0.25].
Newpotato posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TylerK_ [ 7d 7s ]
friendol folds.
dudu_butter calls [$0.5].
gusalot folds.
HellaMannn raises [$2].
jeremyliu510 folds.
Ludus folds.
TylerK_ calls [$2].
Baroombah folds.
Fanatic_P folds.
Newpotato folds.
dudu_butter calls [$1.5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, 6d, 7h ]
dudu_butter checks.
HellaMannn bets [$5].
TylerK_ raises [$12].
dudu_butter folds.
HellaMannn is all-In.
TylerK_ calls [$27.5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qd ]
TylerK_ shows [ 7d, 7s ] four of a kind, sevens.
HellaMannn doesn't show [ Kh, Kd ] two pairs, kings and sevens.
TylerK_ wins $82.75 from the main pot with four of a kind, sevens.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 12-09-2004, 11:59 PM #2 (permalink)  
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it's hands likes these i miss most after switching from NL to limit
 
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TylerK
Old 12-10-2004, 12:08 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypermegachi
it's hands likes these i miss most after switching from NL to limit
over the last 800 hands, my 2 most profitable hands are 55 and 77.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 12-10-2004, 01:17 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK
over the last 800 hands, my 2 most profitable hands are 55 and 77.
i think the most profitable hand i had at 1/2 was 77...for +$40 in one hand. i was SB. it was raised preflop, and i called. bet out on the flop when i hit my set. bet out on the turn with 4 to a straight, ended up capping it. hey i got 10 outs to the nuts i wanna milk these people. full house on the river, which completed the flush drawer. capped the river. muahahaha
 
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TDM100
Old 12-10-2004, 02:52 AM     Post subject: Re-Edit from the Desk of Dan Rather #5 (permalink)  

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TDM100
The hand was way better than the title!

Isn’t a better title for this Post be:
A textbook example of how KK can get assassinated w/ small PP
OR
small PP vs KK, thank GAWD for that flop!
OR
Soon as write this, gonna buy me some Lotto Tickets
OR
Who is afraid of the BIG BAD KINGS
OR
The little pair vs the POWER ELITE! & Finally WINS
OR
I should be playing on TV!

Good hand TylerK
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Fnord
Old 12-10-2004, 03:03 AM #6 (permalink)  
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TDM100 is my new hero.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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TylerK
Old 12-10-2004, 12:42 PM     Post subject: Re: Re-Edit from the Desk of Dan Rather #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDM100
The hand was way better than the title!

Isn’t a better title for this Post be:
A textbook example of how KK can get assassinated w/ small PP
OR
small PP vs KK, thank GAWD for that flop!
OR
Soon as write this, gonna buy me some Lotto Tickets
OR
Who is afraid of the BIG BAD KINGS
OR
The little pair vs the POWER ELITE! & Finally WINS
OR
I should be playing on TV!

Good hand TylerK
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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Toasty
Old 12-10-2004, 03:56 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Implied odds of 20:1 well played
Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
 
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whileone
Old 12-10-2004, 05:30 PM #9 (permalink)  
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ok, i'm confused. so now mid pocket pairs are bad?

tylerK called a 3xBB raise with a mid pair, from mid position. seems reasonable. hits his set 12% of the time. the $40 he made seems like it would cover 20 of those $2 calls. so as long as the sets hold up 1/2 of the time looks ok to me.

perhaps my sarcasam detector is misaligned?

perhaps there is a much more subtle and clever analysis i'm missing?
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-10-2004, 06:00 PM #10 (permalink)  
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He played it well, but its shouldn't factor into your reasoning of calling preflop.

I don't see 77 and think "Spike my third 7 and I'm gonna totally double through on KK." I often think, "Alright, now lets find out where I am in the hand."

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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TylerK
Old 12-10-2004, 06:05 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
He played it well, but its shouldn't factor into your reasoning of calling preflop.

I don't see 77 and think "Spike my third 7 and I'm gonna totally double through on KK." I often think, "Alright, now lets find out where I am in the hand."
No? You're missing a valuable opportunity to make some money, then.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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TylerK
Old 12-10-2004, 06:07 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whileone
ok, i'm confused. so now mid pocket pairs are bad?

tylerK called a 3xBB raise with a mid pair, from mid position. seems reasonable. hits his set 12% of the time. the $40 he made seems like it would cover 20 of those $2 calls. so as long as the sets hold up 1/2 of the time looks ok to me.

perhaps my sarcasam detector is misaligned?

perhaps there is a much more subtle and clever analysis i'm missing?
If that's the case, then I'm missing it too, and have a similarly misaligned sarcasm detector.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 12-10-2004, 06:13 PM #13 (permalink)  
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The hand you posted really only shows that if you flop a set against a big pocket pair, you're doubling up. Thats fairly common knowledge and a good point. I'm saying that you shouldn't indiscriminatly call preflop raises with mid pocket pairs just becuase you might flop lucky.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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TylerK
Old 12-10-2004, 06:36 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The hand you posted really only shows that if you flop a set against a big pocket pair, you're doubling up. Thats fairly common knowledge and a good point. I'm saying that you shouldn't indiscriminatly call preflop raises with mid pocket pairs just becuase you might flop lucky.

-'rilla
"Indiscriminately," no, but with the right circumstances, always. I posted this as an example of what I'd call a near-perfect set of circumstances. As far as "flopping lucky," it's not luck, it's odds. 1:8 will flop a set, you can count on that.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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Bite
Old 12-11-2004, 11:52 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Good hand and well played.
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TDM100
Old 12-11-2004, 01:29 PM     Post subject: New & Improved Sarcasm Detector switched to ON #16 (permalink)  

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TDM100
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK

If that's the case, then I'm missing it too, and have a similarly misaligned sarcasm detector.
I don’t know is it only me?
I sense ol’Tyler here gave a TELL sign when he hit that set!
Now that would be Postable!

“The little pair vs the POWER ELITE! & WINS BIG after Telegraphing TELL Sign”

YES?
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TylerK
Old 12-11-2004, 02:37 PM     Post subject: Re: New & Improved Sarcasm Detector switched to ON #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDM100
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerK

If that's the case, then I'm missing it too, and have a similarly misaligned sarcasm detector.
I don’t know is it only me?
I sense ol’Tyler here gave a TELL sign when he hit that set!
Now that would be Postable!

“The little pair vs the POWER ELITE! & WINS BIG after Telegraphing TELL Sign”

YES?
No?

Are you suggesting that I should NOT have raised the flop?

If you think you have something to say, say it. Your nonsensical posting style was funny for about 13 seconds.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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LeFou
Old 12-11-2004, 03:03 PM #18 (permalink)  
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I think raising the flop was semi-questionable, because you want to add dudubutter's $20 to the pot if you can. A flat call there might have brought him along for the ride. Or did you have some sense that he wouldn't be continuing anyway?

PS: I kinda like TDM100's style. Especially that other one about QQ.
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TylerK
Old 12-11-2004, 03:30 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFou
I think raising the flop was semi-questionable, because you want to add dudubutter's $20 to the pot if you can. A flat call there might have brought him along for the ride. Or did you have some sense that he wouldn't be continuing anyway?
Maybe he would have made the overcall, but I really doubt it. Notice the limp-call PF...No way he had any hand that didn't miss this flop. If I flat called a $5 bet on the flop, he'd have to assume one of us at least had something. Also, I think a flat call would have set alarm bells off for the original better, where a raise *just* over the minimum looks like a steal attempt (I hoped it would, anyway, and it seems to have).
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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Hubris1
Old 12-12-2004, 10:57 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Love the smal pocket pairs, ten percent chance, sure, but the sheer amount of money you can make from these nasty, insidious and almost undetectable little things is just nuts.

Anyone that raises PF with big slick, flops two pairs and thinks: "Hmm, what about that three? What if..." doesn't have their head on right. All people see is dollar signs and thats why the small pockets are some of my biggest moneymakers. In fact, I make more 33 and 44 than I do with QQ, mostly because if I flop the set with QQ people see it. A 3 is entirely invisible.

Not to mention, if I don't flop the set 33 is the easiest damn hand in the world to put down.
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Phew72
Old 12-15-2004, 11:38 AM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubris1
the sheer amount of money you can make from these nasty, insidious and almost undetectable little things is just nuts.
Fantasitic, I love this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubris1
Not to mention, if I don't flop the set 33 is the easiest damn hand in the world to put down.
I agree entirely. However, even if you do flop a set, with an Ace on board and a big pre-flop raise a set of Aces should also be taken into account.
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