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Testing out some aggression...

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holdin2

03-30-2006, 01:43 AM Post subject: Testing out some aggression...

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 279

Please comment on bet sizes (too much/too little) and if it was a good place/time to steal. Anyone paying attention/having stats on me know I'm tight. All three hands were on air.

Hand 1: Both opponents VPIP over 40%, SB passive, MP1 aggresive. Was this to risky or believable trips since I lead out on flop?

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.10 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

CO ($7.75)
Button ($1.40)
SB ($4.25)
Hero ($10.75)
UTG ($6.97)
UTG+1 ($5.30)
MP1 ($20.57)
MP2 ($6.45)
MP3 ($10.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2

, K

.
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.10, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.40) A

, J

, 9

(5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.3, MP1 calls $0.30, MP3 folds, SB calls $0.30.

Turn: ($1.30) J

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.75
---------------------------------------------------
Hand #2: Not enough hands for a read on Villian.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.10 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($8.05)
UTG ($2)
UTG+1 ($3.60)
Hero ($9.95)
MP2 ($6.97)
MP3 ($5.90)
CO ($20.77)
Button ($6.45)
SB ($10.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A

, Q

.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.35, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.35, 5 folds.

Flop: ($0.85) 2

, 2

, 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75
-------------------------------------------------------
Hand 3: SB Loose/Aggresive, No read on MP2. Weak bets encouraged me here, figured I could get it with the scare card for the straight. I figured no one likely on a straight draw with the high preflop raising.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.10 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($17.15)
Hero ($9.50)
UTG ($4.54)
UTG+1 ($3.45)
MP1 ($2.90)
MP2 ($4.90)
CO ($4.90)
Button ($4.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, Q

.
2 folds, MP2 raises to $0.7, 2 folds, SB calls $0.65, Hero calls $0.60, 1 fold.

Flop: ($2.10) 5

, 6

, 2

(3 players)
SB bets $0.1, Hero calls $0.10, MP2 calls $0.10.

Turn: ($2.40) 4

(3 players)
SB bets $0.1, Hero raises to $0.5

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freechus9

03-30-2006, 02:00 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: IN UR BOX HAXXING UR FILEZ

Posts: 1,000

Stop bluffing. It doesn't work at these levels the way you want it to.

My sig is too much for you to handle.

BankItDrew

03-30-2006, 02:07 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Losing Prop Bets

Posts: 2,789

BankItDrew will become famous soon enough

Hand 1:

This is never a spot to be aggressive, for 3 reasons:
A) You don't have any information on your opponents hands, other than the preflop action. Your preflop information gives no indication of anything because everyone limped = 2 random cards.

b) Position. This ties into (A) because position is information. If you want to bluff, you have to first gain enough justifiable information towards a bluff. Right now, you have none.

C) Your own holdings. If this bluff is called, you can count on someone calling with at least a pair (possibly aces). So don't expect to win on your outs.

If you decide to make this move anyways, plan on carrying through with it throughout each street.

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bair

03-30-2006, 05:46 AM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 953

you need to be the one raising. hand 1 you have no business betting whatsoever especially with that many people in the hand. hand 2 you need to be raising in correlation with the pot size, not his bet, should make it at least 1.25. hand 3, same as above, need to raise way more, like 2.50 at least

jackvance

03-30-2006, 07:21 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 2,910

jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

hand 1:
I don't think you're scaring anyone here. SB might just check with a 9 or an A because of that second J. And SM1, you don't know anything about him yet, since it wasn't his turn yet, he might have the J. Or if he or SB have anything, they'll call this.

hand2:
Very weird and weak bet by MP2. Probably a flush draw. I think you need to raise a bit more to really scare him off though, some people like to gamble with bad odds.

hand3:
Lol.. SB bets 1/25th of the pot?! And I don't really think your 1/5th of the pot bluff is going to instill the awe you are looking for.. Also it's probably not a very credible bluff, since it's all low cards on a 7BB preflop raise. I don't really see what you want to convince them you have with a bluff here.. 78 or something? Won't work..

About bluffing.. not that good at it, but from what I've learned at 10NL, I wouldn't try to bluff 2 guys, just one, and I'd first have to have some assurances my opp would actually be able to lay down a crap hand or not be one of those people that likes to chase minimal odds before I throw out a bluff.

holdin2

03-30-2006, 12:22 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 279

Thanks for the advice guys. For those who said more of pot bets than just raising the guys bet 3-5x......does the risk of sticking even that much more money (about 3-4x more than what I was already bettting) outweigh/do better than the small bets I'm making? I have to be successful a much smaller percentage of the time making my bets than the pot sized bets.

And does the fact that I took down all 3 of these pots say anything to me reading hte situation good enough despite the small bets and that I shouldn't be bluffing at all at these limits apparently?

bair

03-30-2006, 01:59 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 953

no it just means you got real lucky and your opponents have no idea how to play. and no one is going to be betting 1/25th of the pot at any limits except the one you're at. if you're going to bluff you have to pay to do it, you're never going to have the opportunity to raise that little, and if you do its not going to work.

Fnord

03-30-2006, 02:30 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Hand 1: Terrible spot, nothing pot, multi-way, somone probably caught something and no one is bowing down to reverse-implied odds at that level.

Hand 2: Just bet the flop. You look like an idiot with overs who is having a fit about being bet into.

Hand 3: I'd go at least half pot on the turn. Good spot to raise if you're going to play the hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Renton

03-30-2006, 02:41 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

plays like those don't become profitable until 50nl, and even then...

Fnord

03-30-2006, 02:43 PM

#10 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

plays like those don't become profitable until 50nl, and even then...

Opponents and game texture matter more than the stakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Pelion

03-30-2006, 02:43 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

If you are going to make these aggressive steals you need to do it with information. Everyone checks, or if someone makes a small bet on a 2 flush board ill give a raise a go because I know they probably have nothing, a draw or at the most they have TPWK.

You want folds so you want a pot without many people in, a board that looks like noone caught anything and the other players in the hand need to look like they are considering folding.

Hand 2 isnt actually too bad if hes been calling cbets alot, but if not then it is way better to just bet out. However you said you had no reads so why bother trying to get tricky. Just bet out and fold to strength.

Hand 3 Id fold preflop but Id raise that flop to $1.70 ish

Hand 1 is just horrible. You have no information, You are against alot of players and someone probably caught at least a draw. You actually carried on going OOP when everyone called, you still had nothing, and one of the hands that could have called you just improved and you still had no reason to think anyone would fold.

Your heart is in the right place but you need to pick your spots alot better. I think you got very lucky that they folded. At this level the general mistake people make is calling too much. Bluffing at these players without a very good reason too isnt going to work.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

martindcx1e

03-30-2006, 03:14 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

If you stay at full ring I would try getting used to letting AQo go pre-flop to a decent raise. I would fold AQs too unless it's obvious the pot will be multi-way and there's not a high chance of the pot being re-opened. If not it will probably cause you lot 'o stress.

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

bair

03-30-2006, 03:19 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 953

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

statement is way too vague, depends on who is raising, the table texture, your position...im definitely calling a raise from anyone with AQo in position except for if villain has like a 1% pfr

Pelion

03-30-2006, 04:32 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by bair

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

statement is way too vague, depends on who is raising, the table texture, your position...im definitely calling a raise from anyone with AQo in position except for if villain has like a 1% pfr

Without a read im folding preflop.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

DaHorror

03-30-2006, 04:52 PM

#15 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Just looking down the list...

Hand1 - this is a horrible place to bluff. You check preflop, then you lead out king high on a draw-heavy flop with an ace on it (which 1 of the other 3 people is likely to have).
Bluff when you have outs or you have a pretty good feel for what the other 1 or 2 (max) opponents have and that they will fold to what you are representing.

Hand 2: Just lead the flop if you are going to bluff here. Your line looks suspicious but then you don't bet enough to get him to fold...he probably has a pair so he might fold to the raise, but I doubt it. At least you have a few outs this time.

Hand 3: At this level and skill I would just dump AQo to a raise in the BB, it'll just get you in trouble. As it stands, you have odds to call the donkish flop bet, but the amount of your turn raise is just silly...unless he has no hand and no draw he's not folding, and you might not even fold out the other guy's overcards either (who may have AK and have you outkicked with his hi card ace hand).

People say not to bluff the micro limits, and that's generally good advice because most people do not understand the right spots to bluff, and do not monitor their opponents enough to know who will fold marginal hands. But probably the biggest reason not to overbluff micro-limits is the number of people that are involved in the pot (can be 5-9 every hand). Though UB is better for bluffing than some other sites because it's usually 4-5 max to the flop even in a limped pot.

holdin2

03-30-2006, 06:51 PM

#16 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 279

Thanks again for all the response guys...you didn't even ream me out that bad. Even Fnord only gave me an I "look" like an idiot.

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