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Terry's 2 big hands of the day.

  
 
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TerryToma
Old 10-20-2006, 04:37 AM     Post subject: Terry's 2 big hands of the day. #1 (permalink)  
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2 big laydowns. what do the opponents have? Am i crazy folding these?
50 NL full tilt full ring.

******* Hand 1 ********

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $38.85
UTG+1: $110.75
MP1: $36.40
MP2: $42.30
MP3: $45.75
CO: $46.05
TerryToma: $82.60
SB: $17.50
BB: $58.15

Pre-flop: (9 players) TerryToma is Button with K A
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, TerryToma raises to $3.5, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Flop: 5 A Q ($11.75, 3 players)
UTG+1 bets $7, CO calls, TerryToma folds.

Turn: T ($25.75, 2 players)
UTG+1 bets $25.75, CO raises all-in $35.55, UTG+1 calls.

River: 5 ($96.85, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $96.85)


Results:
Final pot: $96.85


******* Hand 2 ********

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $17.25
UTG+1: $40.65
MP1: $161.60
MP2: $19
CO: $41.45
Button: $52.30
SB: $30.95
CO: $46.05
TerryToma: $79.10

Pre-flop: (8 players) TerryToma is BB with T 8
4 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, TerryToma checks.

Flop: 8 J T ($2, 4 players)
SB bets $2, TerryToma calls, CO raises to $6, Button folds, SB raises all-in $30.45, TerryToma folds, CO calls.

Turn: 4 ($64.9, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $64.9)


River: 6 ($64.9, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $64.9)


Results:
Final pot: $64.9
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...887&highlight=
 
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givememyleg
Old 10-20-2006, 04:50 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 I dunno about hand 1, this is kinda read dependent altough it is a commong set line. Just seems kinda weak. Hand 2 looks fine.

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TerryToma
Old 10-20-2006, 04:59 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
I dunno about hand 1, this is kinda read dependent altough it is a commong set line. Just seems kinda weak. Hand 2 looks fine.
guess opponents hands?
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givememyleg
Old 10-20-2006, 05:06 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryToma
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
I dunno about hand 1, this is kinda read dependent altough it is a commong set line. Just seems kinda weak. Hand 2 looks fine.
guess opponents hands?
This is pretty hard to do... do I get a prize if I'm right?

I dunno whether to assume total donks or nits or anything but hand 1 really looks like a line aq/a5/55 would take. I guess the fold isn't that bad considering this will be a big pot and you have 1 pair. CO could have anything from a stupid played AT AJ AK to JK, who knows... I guess the fact that the flop is pretty drawless makes folding here not so bad.

I think putting sb and co on hands is less important in hand 2. The board is really connected, unraised pot and you're facing bet/raise/ai.

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Jager
Old 10-20-2006, 05:09 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: AQ v 55
Hand 2: SB has Q9
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nutsinho
Old 10-20-2006, 07:27 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 delete turn action in hand 1
My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
 
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Dislexsik
Old 10-20-2006, 10:42 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Why not raise the flop in hand 2?
 
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Hartlin
Old 10-20-2006, 10:44 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I would also raise the flop in hand 2..
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bode
Old 10-20-2006, 02:10 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 i dont mind either fold.
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Renton
Old 10-20-2006, 02:22 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 can't fold hand one to one bet.

At 50nl, a split pair of aces with ace-king is very often a stacking-a-donk hand.
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TerryToma
Old 10-20-2006, 08:51 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dislexsik
Why not raise the flop in hand 2?
i am not a fan of bottom 2 pair in an unraised pot.
Oldest TerryBlog (the good ole days): http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-40661.htm

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TerryToma
Old 10-20-2006, 08:52 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
can't fold hand one to one bet.

At 50nl, a split pair of aces with ace-king is very often a stacking-a-donk hand.
i dunno, the way full tilt plays i knew one of them had 2 pair or better on that flop.
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Fnord
Old 10-20-2006, 08:54 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Stop playing the full table camping contest.
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Renton
Old 10-20-2006, 09:18 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryToma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
can't fold hand one to one bet.

At 50nl, a split pair of aces with ace-king is very often a stacking-a-donk hand.
i dunno, the way full tilt plays i knew one of them had 2 pair or better on that flop.
beg to differ

obviously you were right in this scenario considering the heavy turn action, but in general your hand is good to that lead bet
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TerryToma
Old 10-20-2006, 10:10 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryToma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
can't fold hand one to one bet.

At 50nl, a split pair of aces with ace-king is very often a stacking-a-donk hand.
i dunno, the way full tilt plays i knew one of them had 2 pair or better on that flop.
beg to differ

obviously you were right in this scenario considering the heavy turn action, but in general your hand is good to that lead bet
limp/call lead flop into 2 opponents 2/3rds+ pot. what do you think he has that i beat?? AJ? AT? 99?
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Renton
Old 10-20-2006, 11:03 PM #16 (permalink)  
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 against an unknown, Ax
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Miffed22001
Old 10-21-2006, 12:12 AM #17 (permalink)  
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 hand 2 is well played imo. Play a big blank turn imo a lot.

hand 1 seems standard
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bigslikk
Old 10-21-2006, 12:41 AM #18 (permalink)  
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I dunno, but my pix:

Hand 1:
Leading Bettor- AT
Behind- 55

Hand 2:
Lead Bettor- J8o
Behind- Ax spades
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homeboy604
Old 10-21-2006, 08:14 AM #19 (permalink)  
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these hands are played way too weakly imo.
im re raising hand 1 to 18 or so. if the the caller in the hand re raises ai then i fold instantly. if inital better on flop goes all in im probably calling and seeing a weak ace here most of the time.

hand 2 im re raising as well. i re raise to about 9 and fold to a re raise.
reads would be nice.
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Miffed22001
Old 10-21-2006, 09:48 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homeboy604
these hands are played way too weakly imo.
im re raising hand 1 to 18 or so. if the the caller in the hand re raises ai then i fold instantly. if inital better on flop goes all in im probably calling and seeing a weak ace here most of the time.

hand 2 im re raising as well. i re raise to about 9 and fold to a re raise.
reads would be nice.
in hand 1 we get a pot sized bet into us when the board shows our mostly likely holding, and its from a limper no less. Looks dangerous to me when we hold just one pair and someone obviously wants to play a big pot.
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Renton
Old 10-21-2006, 07:26 PM #21 (permalink)  
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 split aces with AK is extremely difficult to get away from at 50nl. It just beats so many hands he could have. If we had ANY read whatsoever that this was a tight player, then we could fold no problem. But you have to put an unknown on less. You guys don't understand that the average player is WAY too dumb to fast play a set on an ace high board. And since we were given no reads, we must assume that of this player. Sure, by folding this we never get stacked in this scenario. However, not being able to get away from TPTK is largely responsible for me having a high winrate at 25nl and 50nl, and stakes higher than that are really only more difficult because people don't pay those hands off any more.
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mcatdog
Old 10-21-2006, 07:31 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
split aces with AK is extremely difficult to get away from at 50nl. It just beats so many hands he could have. If we had ANY read whatsoever that this was a tight player, then we could fold no problem. But you have to put an unknown on less. You guys don't understand that the average player is WAY too dumb to fast play a set on an ace high board. And since we were given no reads, we must assume that of this player. Sure, by folding this we never get stacked in this scenario. However, not being able to get away from TPTK is largely responsible for me having a high winrate at 25nl and 50nl, and stakes higher than that are really only more difficult because people don't pay those hands off any more.
good post
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Numbr2intheWorld
Old 10-21-2006, 11:13 PM #23 (permalink)  
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 I think you're underestimating 50NL a bit guys, they aren't all that terrible, although there are a lot of terrible players.

Hand 1 you should remove the turn betting from the post. and with that removed there is no way you could guess their hands because you don't have enough info. I call, if UTG+1 bets again, he is more likely to have you beat. If CO calls, you know you're probably beat.

Hand 2... no way you can call that all in.
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Renton
Old 10-22-2006, 01:35 AM #24 (permalink)  
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 50nl is micro stakes. And at micro stakes the play is soft.
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TerryToma
Old 10-22-2006, 05:55 AM #25 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
50nl is micro stakes. And at micro stakes the play is soft.
full tilt seems tougher than what im used to at 50NL.
Oldest TerryBlog (the good ole days): http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-40661.htm

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Jager
Old 10-22-2006, 06:15 AM #26 (permalink)  
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I found that $50 can be real tough, I find it easier when I keep reminding myself WHO to try extract money from. If you can identify those who are willing to play for big bets with weak holdings it helps alot at that particular level.
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TerryToma
Old 10-22-2006, 08:32 AM #27 (permalink)  
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ok, heres some reads i decided to dig out from poker tracker.. i didnt think this thread would get so much action.. i wanted to help others practice hand reading ability.. but good discussion so far. and good job so far by the people that have guessed hands.. but maybe the pt stats will shed some light:

hand 1:
UTG+1 stats after 86 hands: 16/7
CO stats 36 hands, 25/9

hand 2:
SB 17/4 after 103 hands
CO 20/2 after 101

i'll post the results tomorrow.
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Miffed22001
Old 10-22-2006, 10:10 PM #28 (permalink)  
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 i call or raise in hand 1, more for info than pot building
But if i call and face that turn bet i fold pretty quick.

In hand 2, so many cards can hit the turn that scare us im calling and forcing a large mistake from many hands on the turn. Playing a huge flop is not great play imo.
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