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The tempting mediocre

  
 
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iSHACKABUKU
Old 09-23-2005, 02:43 PM     Post subject: The tempting mediocre #1 (permalink)  

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iSHACKABUKU
Guys,
I play 25$ NL, recently bought into empire poker, personally im not too impressived having come from paradise poker, although the crazy hands there were too much for me!! Anyways Im curious as to how you guys play those tempting mediocre hands or if you play them at all.
Im talking about the K10 suited, 89 Suited, suited connectors in general!! I pretty much only try to play them in position and limp in! But people love to raise and Im afraid this is a big leak for me!! But if i dont play these hands occasionally, i cant wait forever for the BIG PP or Ak Aq..............
Drop it like its hot *the flop*
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 09-23-2005, 02:49 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Fold them preflop. Fold from UTG. Fold from EP/MP/LP. Fold from the Button. Fold from the SB. Check/fold from the BB

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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DimitriT
Old 09-23-2005, 03:24 PM #3 (permalink)  
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On a tight table, with good reads, where I have respect (fear) from my opps and if I haven't been too active, I will use the trouble hands to steal blinds.

I will raise up KJos, KTs, A6s-A9s from MP3 and on, especially when my neighbors to the left are well known tighties. I will sometimes go as low as JTs and A2s when conditions are ripe.

I will sometimes limp (about 30%) the same hands from the button rather than raise them. I do this to mix it up and show respect. I will also sometimes check them down when I haven't hit for the same reason.

These hands are insta-folds to any PFR, to 2 or more limps and from OOP.

I wouldn't suggest playing these hands unless you have some experience.
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Laeelin
Old 09-23-2005, 04:20 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
i cant wait forever for the BIG PP or Ak Aq..............
Sure you can, thats how to make really good porfits at that limit.

Quote:
m talking about the K10 suited, 89 Suited, suited connectors in general!! I pretty much only try to play them in position and limp in! But people love to raise and Im afraid this is a big leak for me!!
If you cant resist them, you might want to try 6Max, but your best choice ( by FAR ) is to become a rock.

Once I became a rock I moved from .10/.25 to .50/1.00 in like 2 weeks.

It wasnt untill .50/1.00 that camping for sets/overpairs stops being highly profitable.

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?
 
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dsaxton
Old 09-23-2005, 06:43 PM #5 (permalink)  
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If you're going to play marginal hands, I think it's best to play them aggressively. Raise them preflop and misrepresent your hand on the flop and hope your opponents fold. This gives you two ways to win the hand, your opponents will fold better hands fearing that you have an overpair or top pair, or you may flop the best hand and get action from a second best hand. With suited connectors, I'll often raise them from any position if the table is reasonably tight with the intention of betting any flop. Ideally I'd like to flop three of a kind, two pair or some kind of a draw, knowing that my hand will be well-concealed if I do, but if I don't it doesn't really matter. If I miss I'll make a continuation bet and concede if I'm called or raised, but if I hit my hand well I can usually blind-side the other player, who will often misread my hand. Sometimes I'll do this with marginal hands such as Q-J offsuit, unsuited connectors, suited and unsuited aces, but I prefer to have position in these situations.

One issue you may have to worry about obviously is if you're playing a hand that's frequently dominated by hands which tend to call raises preflop. But, if you're holding K-10, and your opponent is holding A-K, the chances of a K coming on the flop are about the same as the chances of flopping a set with a pocket pair (fairly small). However, if you've taken the lead in the hand, then you have a psychological advantage and are likely to win the pot on the flop when your opponent misses, which he often will. If a K does flop, and you're getting action, then usually you'll have to infer that you're probably behind and will have difficulty bluffing the other player out, so you'll have to slow down.

Against weaker passive opponents, you can't really play like this. When playing against these players, you should probably avoid trouble hands entirely and try playing only hands that can be played well for value, since you expect to get action fairly often.
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aislephive
Old 09-24-2005, 12:20 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Fold them preflop. Fold from UTG. Fold from EP/MP/LP. Fold from the Button. Fold from the SB. Check/fold from the BB

-'rilla
Gee, I hope you aren't serious. Even Dan Harrington is loose enough to play with these hands, and you wouldn't?
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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 09-24-2005, 12:33 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Gee, I hope you aren't serious. Even Dan Harrington is loose enough to play with these hands, and you wouldn't?
Dan Harrington also doesn't play $25NL on Party. The original poster does though and thus recommendations were made with this in mind.
TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 09-24-2005, 01:32 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aislephive
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Fold them preflop. Fold from UTG. Fold from EP/MP/LP. Fold from the Button. Fold from the SB. Check/fold from the BB

-'rilla
Gee, I hope you aren't serious. Even Dan Harrington is loose enough to play with these hands, and you wouldn't?
Deadly serious. With the opponents you play at in 25nl you will have an easier time just nut-peddling. With every marginal hand you add earlier than you are ready, you take a HUGE chunk out of your winrate.

Think about it, fold KTs and make more money in the long run.

You can add these hands later when your opposition mandates that you do. (They stop paying you off at a nud-peddler (around 200nl, I'd guess))

Also, Dan Harrington plays these hands in specific situations where he feels he has an edge in folding equity (Partially produced by his table image, partially produced by the tournament structure, partially produced by reads) which makes him playing mediocre hands a world apart from 25nl where you can't bluff profitably (Therefore you have NO folding equity <- the stuff that makes bluffs work)

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Laeelin
Old 09-24-2005, 02:05 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by aislephive
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Fold them preflop. Fold from UTG. Fold from EP/MP/LP. Fold from the Button. Fold from the SB. Check/fold from the BB

-'rilla
Gee, I hope you aren't serious. Even Dan Harrington is loose enough to play with these hands, and you wouldn't?
Deadly serious. With the opponents you play at in 25nl you will have an easier time just nut-peddling. With every marginal hand you add earlier than you are ready, you take a HUGE chunk out of your winrate.

Think about it, fold KTs and make more money in the long run.

You can add these hands later when your opposition mandates that you do. (They stop paying you off at a nud-peddler (around 200nl, I'd guess))

Also, Dan Harrington plays these hands in specific situations where he feels he has an edge in folding equity (Partially produced by his table image, partially produced by the tournament structure, partially produced by reads) which makes him playing mediocre hands a world apart from 25nl where you can't bluff profitably (Therefore you have NO folding equity <- the stuff that makes bluffs work)

-'rilla
what he said ^^^

Playing junk in low limit full ring is giving your money away. (and, yes, KJ is junk)

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?
 
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Seabass
Old 09-24-2005, 11:00 AM #10 (permalink)  
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I dont recall playing these hands on nl 25, the risk wasnt worth it. People tend to play real bad and camping is rewarded more. As you move up, you need to move away from the usual camping or you are going to have problems.

If your going to play these hands in nl25 i would say limp from late pos with a few limpers ahead. Try to hit something solid and dont go crazy with top pair only. As you move up, people give you more credit when you raise. So raising with suited drawing hands with position work better.

Oh, and I love KTs.
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iSHACKABUKU
Old 09-25-2005, 01:19 AM     Post subject: know when to fold em?? #11 (permalink)  

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iSHACKABUKU
Here is a little story, let me know what you guys would have done.

Im delt: 44 (sailboats )
I raise: 2$ (mid position)
I get 2 callers.
Flop: 2s 4d 5s
early positon checks, I raise 2$ both players call.
Turn: 3s
early position checks, i check, late position raises 5$
FOLD. FOLD -take it down.

I fold trips because my raise pre flop has 2 callers, i put 1 of them on an ace, which would have taken my trips down with a straight, and potential flush onboard. I know my better could have been higher to protect my hand. Would any of you have folded the trips so easily?
Drop it like its hot *the flop*
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 09-25-2005, 01:26 AM #12 (permalink)  
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I would have limp/called preflop. Tried to trap a few chips on the flop depending on how many people saw it with me. Probably really define my hand by the turn.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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jmontis
Old 09-25-2005, 01:31 AM #13 (permalink)  
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ohh boy, people reading HOH and jumping into nl cash games, i just might have to start the rounding again.
take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
 
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