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10-21-2005, 10:33 AM
Post subject: talk about a fk'd up beat :(
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#1 (permalink)
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{This post has been removed}
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{This post has been removed}
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DogOnMySide
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 458
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Yeah... don't you just hate it when half your outs are actually "stack killers"
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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He will get hurt by smooth-calling that preflop over time, but this is not a bad beat. You were never ahead in the hand.
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PokerPatNEU
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 797
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Why not just call the river on the paired board? Are TT, QQ, A2, or 22 not possible holdings? What hands are going to call your raise that you beat? AK?
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
He will get hurt by smooth-calling that preflop over time
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not to mention the shitty flop check. dumb sauce.
That said, I don't like the turn call. Odds aren't there and I don't see you getting paid off if you hit the river. There's not much to go after in this pot
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thirteen
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 235
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
God I hate people who smooth call raises with A/A that really gets my goat ...RERAISE you freakin ass-hoe.....I have a tough time putting someone on pocket rockets here when he just flat calls my pre flop raise...thats messed up...this guy needs to get his ass kicked
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I agree with you. This guy played his Aces really badly, but even if he reraised, had you stayed in the hand, and it plays out the same, with him checking the flop, etc... would you have put him on Aces full at the end? You seemed pretty intent on getting your money in, even though a full house was quite possible right from the flop. His check on the flop could have been him slowplaying a big hand.
EDIT: Just want to add that I mean no disrespect here, I know you're quite a poker player. Just seemed to me that you were intent on getting your money in with that straight.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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oh this play so could have been me (sorry rippy, im a fan but i like to cold call here with rockets)
the only thing i consider here is the full house so i only call opp when he rerasises you although you have no stack by that time so i guess you can push no real difference.
you have to give opp both credit for the smooth call and the way he played it and the miricle river.
id lose my stack here too
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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What are you doing raising preflop with KJo after 2 limpers anyways? Also that small of a raise just prices people in to cold call with anything hoping to score a big pot.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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{This post has been removed}
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Rippy,
I really like how the BB played his hand here and I think you should understand his line of thinking because you will run into stuff like this if you keep raising KJo on the button.
So, there are 2 weak limpers, then the aggro guy makes it 5x on the button. You've shown strength technically, but he might have figured out by now that you'll do this a lot. If he's really bright, he also knows that more often than not you'll run away if played back at. By smooth calling he keeps the horrible players in the pot and sets up an isolation check/raise when you continuation bet.
On the flop he's clearly going to check/raise. He knows you'll continuation bet a lot (why didn't you BTW, this is the MOST surprising street.) If an idiot continues despire the bet+raise then AA reconsiders where he stands. Otherwise, he'll shut down a lot of draws and small pairs.
On the turn he puts out a weak lead (it almost screams "I'm weak, raise me!")
Anyway, players start doing funny stuff like this when you get really aggressive. So not only do you need to understand how they'll usually play, you also need to be one step ahead of them knowing what kind of stuff they're likely to do once they figure out you're running without the ball a lot.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dwarfman
Rippy, you had bad odds to call the turn bet, so you dug your own hole here.
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You gotta back that up bro. What range do you put the BB on here?
The only part I *might* do differently post-flop is not put the rest in on the river after our opponent makea a bet/re-raise line.
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Kiriath
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 216
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Rippy,
I really like how the BB played his hand here and I think you should understand his line of thinking because you will run into stuff like this if you keep raising KJo on the button.
So, there are 2 weak limpers, then the aggro guy makes it 5x on the button. You've shown strength technically, but he might have figured out by now that you'll do this a lot. If he's really bright, he also knows that more often than not you'll run away if played back at. By smooth calling he keeps the horrible players in the pot and sets up an isolation check/raise when you continuation bet.
On the flop he's clearly going to check/raise. He knows you'll continuation bet a lot (why didn't you BTW, this is the MOST surprising street.) If an idiot continues despire the bet+raise then AA reconsiders where he stands. Otherwise, he'll shut down a lot of draws and small pairs.
On the turn he puts out a weak lead (it almost screams "I'm weak, raise me!")
Anyway, players start doing funny stuff like this when you get really aggressive. So not only do you need to understand how they'll usually play, you also need to be one step ahead of them knowing what kind of stuff they're likely to do once they figure out you're running without the ball a lot.
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Amen!!!
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
A: the so called limpers are limping in with a whole .25 cents and K/J is a hand I want to isolate with
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Not really a hand I want to play raised pots with, as I'm going to quite often be in a spot where I need to make a big continue/fold decision with a luke-warm pair in a raised pot.
Calling here is ok too. You have a good hand (probably the best hand) and the best position. However, your hand is sort of speculative in that you really want to hit the board. By limping you play out this position with lots of cash behind (favors strong decions making and folding if it's close), still can pick up flops if everyone misses and give predictable players the chance to tell you you're beat.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
A: the so called limpers are limping in with a whole .25 cents and K/J is a hand I want to isolate with
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Not really a hand I want to play raised pots with, as I'm going to quite often be in a spot where I need to make a big continue/fold decision with a luke-warm pair in a raised pot.
Calling here is ok too. You have a good hand (probably the best hand) and the best position. However, your hand is sort of speculative in that you really want to hit the board. By limping you play out this position with lots of cash behind (favors strong decions making and folding if it's close), still can pick up flops if everyone misses and give predictable players the chance to tell you you're beat. |
he has the button, raise is good in a short handed game.
you really cant put in another reraise after he reraised you on the river on a paired board.
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Hmm, it appears someone deleted my post. I'll make it again.
Rippy, you had bad odds to call the turn bet, so you dug your own hole here.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dwarfman
Rippy, you had bad odds to call the turn bet, so you dug your own hole here.
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You gotta back that up bro. What range do you put the BB on here?
The only part I *might* do differently post-flop is not put the rest in on the river after our opponent makea a bet/re-raise line. |
Generally, if someone in early position checks the flop and then comes to life on a turn scare card, it either means that they hit that card, or they are now protecting a hand that they attempted to slowplay on the flop. I put opponent on any queen or AA-JJ.
I don't even think implied odds justify a call here.
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Rondavu
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10-24-2005, 02:55 PM
Post subject: Re: talk about a fk'd up beat :(
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#17 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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You play aggressive, and sooner or later someone will play passive. The opponent was incorrectly slowplaying to spike the implied odds against an aggressive performer. Once the turn hits, a person with AA is thinking the following...
22 protects me from two pair, and a high straight board will give me a house. If the opponent has a set I'm already beat. No reason to play fast here.
This hand was really well played by the villain.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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