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lamaros

11-21-2005, 04:37 AM Post subject: Stuck.

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 346

I bet weakish on the turn to try and look worried about the flush/flush draw and get a call. When he put me AI I was worried about A8/7 or 33/77/88... but I think the guy was capable of pushing as a bluff over my 'weak' bet. No point putting my stack on that, right?.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG ($21.95)
UTG+1 ($30.65)
MP1 ($10.45)
MP2 ($11.85)
MP3 ($25)
CO ($26.10)
Button ($29.10)
Hero ($27.15)
BB ($20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

, K

.
4 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Button calls $0.25, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2.50) 3

, 8

, A

(3 players)
Hero bets $2.5, MP3 folds, Button calls $2.50.

Turn: ($7.50) 7

(2 players)
Hero bets $4.5, Button raises to $25.85, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $37.85

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Greedo017

11-21-2005, 06:18 AM

#2 (permalink)

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foldorama

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

Fnord

11-21-2005, 08:29 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I would call that.

I might check the turn as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Irisheyes

11-21-2005, 02:58 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,708

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I would call that.

I might check the turn as well.

Because you think the chance is high enough he hit the flush straight out?

Fold by the way.

Fnord

11-21-2005, 05:05 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Irisheyes

Because you think the chance is high enough he hit the flush straight out?

Because we have a lukewarm made hand with a re-draw. Betting is more likely to put us in a spot where we have to make a big decsion. We really want to see a river card, but hope we hold unimproved.

This is exactly why I hate raising out of the blinds, unless I'm trying to blow everyone out of the pot (or look like it and have AA/KK/QQ.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Nugunz

11-21-2005, 05:58 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Posts: 55

Slow down on turn

EricE

11-21-2005, 06:15 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Posts: 894

I definetly fold. One pair is not enough for me to call that bet even with the redraw. 77?

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

Fnord

11-21-2005, 06:23 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

I definetly fold. One pair is not enough for me to call that bet even with the redraw. 77?

What kind of f'd up thinking has you put him on 77?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

EricE

11-21-2005, 07:10 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

I definetly fold. One pair is not enough for me to call that bet even with the redraw. 77?

What kind of f'd up thinking has you put him on 77?

Nothing so much as the fact that I think I am beat. Limp, call raise..could be SC or PP. The right SC or PP can have you beat. Unlike you I am weak and won’t put in so much money with only a pair. <shrug>

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

Fnord

11-21-2005, 08:17 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

Saying you're beat and giving a range is fine. Thinking 77 is anything but a very fringe holding is pretty bad.

As for pairs and "don't go broke with just a pair". It really depends on your opponent, board texture, pot size etc. Sometimes a pair is a pretty darn good hand. Sometimes you're just a pay-off bitch. This complexity is where all the money is and the appeal of poker to thinking players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

pgil

11-21-2005, 08:32 PM Post subject: Re: Stuck.

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lamaros

I bet weakish on the turn to try and look worried about the flush/flush draw and get a call. ... but I think the guy was capable of pushing as a bluff over my 'weak' bet.

if this was basically what you wanted, and you got it, i say run with it. if you dont want a push over top, then dont bet to try and look worried/weak. if your read says he can push overtop of a weak looking bet, then even more reason to go with it.

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

rubixstreub

11-21-2005, 08:35 PM

#12 (permalink)

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I've been calling (or even making that move) with AQ and half the time it's AK the other half it's a set. I'm learning AQ is burning me real hard in NL ring.

I have a feeling more often than not this is a set who slowplayed a coordinated flop and is now regretting it.

Come give me advice.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58488.htm

Fnord

11-21-2005, 08:38 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by RubixSoHo

I'm learning AQ is burning me real hard in NL ring.

DUCY? How is AK running for you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

EricE

11-21-2005, 08:42 PM Post subject: Re: Stuck.

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pgil

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamaros

I bet weakish on the turn to try and look worried about the flush/flush draw and get a call. ... but I think the guy was capable of pushing as a bluff over my 'weak' bet.

Indeed, if you try to induce a bluff but fold to said bluff then that is really bad as you are just encouraging future bluffs against you. If you try and induce a bluff you must call it when it comes.

Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL

DaNutsInYoEye

11-21-2005, 09:04 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Like Fnord said, it would be nice if people would put the opponent on a range of hands before saying what they would do. Knowing why you make a decision is just as, if not more important, than the decision itself.

The action pre-flop doesn't tell me anything other than that he doesn't have AA. So many people limp and then call raises at this level, especially when it is only 2X more. The call on the flop has me thinking pair of aces, two pair, set, or flush draw. The AI on the turn when the third club comes seems to suggest that it was more of a scare card to him than one that made his hand. Maybe he pushes with a flush, but I doubt it. It seems more like an attempt to protect a hand that he failed to do earlier, such as a set or two pair. The overbet makes me more inclined to call then if he bets a lesser, yet still substantial amount although I'm still probably folding. Againt a set I have 8 outs to beat him. Against two pair I have anywhere from 12-17 outs. Against a weaker ace I have him dominated. It seems more likely that I'm behind and with one card to come don't have enough outs to beat most hands to justify a call. Barring any reads on him, I fold.

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

Fnord

11-21-2005, 09:08 PM

#16 (permalink)

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I really like Nut's post up until he counted outs and said he would fold.

3,916 games 0.005 secs 783,200 games/sec

Board: As 8s 3c 7s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 59.9591 % 59.96% 00.00% { AhKc }
Hand 2: 40.0409 % 40.04% 00.00% { 88, 33, AJs-A2s, 87s, AJo-A2o, 87o }

Then factor in the flush (PokerStove lacks the ablity to input flushing ranges.)

As a rule, if I think it's close and the pot is big I call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

lamaros

11-22-2005, 03:47 AM Post subject: Re: Stuck.

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 346

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricE

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgil

Quote:

Originally Posted by lamaros

I bet weakish on the turn to try and look worried about the flush/flush draw and get a call. ... but I think the guy was capable of pushing as a bluff over my 'weak' bet.

I didn't want the push over the top, I wanted the weak call. When he pushed over the top I realised that he was probably the wrong person to make a weak bet like that at.

I'm giving the guy a bit of respect, because I saw him play a few hands well. I felt that the bluff was a chance but not really the most likely, more likely was A8/7. The only hand that I think he would have played like that would probably have been AxQc or Ax with another high kicker. In the end I felt like he didn't have these holdings (or was bluffing) often enough to justify the call.

Perhaps I tend to trust my reads a little too much while still learning. But you have to start somewhere.

If I had just bet strongly on the turn, like I should have, then the problem wouldn't exist.

Irisheyes

11-22-2005, 10:42 AM Post subject: Re: Stuck.

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lamaros

If I had just bet strongly on the turn, like I should have, then the problem wouldn't exist.

I dunno. If he has the flush and you check into him he can either get smart and check behind or else he can see you are afraid of the flush card and make a value bet which you can possibly call with your nut flush draw.

If he doesn't have the flush and you check into him I actually think he may be less likely to push bluff, checking behind may seem like a cheaper and less risky option to him. Also if you check and he does bluff it's likely to be a smaller bet, keeping the pot size down.

The way it played I still think I fold, and I woulda never thought of all this shit in the moment.

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