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Standard play?

  
 
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Knytestorme
Old 06-17-2007, 11:05 AM     Post subject: Standard play? #1 (permalink)  
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Villian is 27/6 over only 100 hands

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 ($62.20)
CO ($50)
Hero ($48.65)
SB ($47.70)
BB ($60.55)
UTG ($114)
UTG+1 ($49.55)
MP1 ($56.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, A.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 1 fold, BB calls $1.50, MP1 calls $1.50.

Flop: ($6.25) 5, 4, 3 (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($6.25) 7 (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $4, BB calls $4, MP1 folds.

River: ($14.25) K (2 players)
BB bets $14.25, Hero calls ???
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SHAKE
Old 06-17-2007, 01:27 PM #2 (permalink)  
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SHAKE
check on the flop is bad, your in position aginst 2 people who CALLED your raise prf. I c-bet this 100% of the time. It would have made subsequent streets eaiser to play. Whats vils agression factor? givin his pfr is 6 ill guess its low. I really dont dont know, sure loos like the A or 6 huh? Check more stats, whats his won at SD, Ai @SD? god why did you check this flop??!?
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Jimmy Mac
Old 06-17-2007, 02:23 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Yeah, I bet this flop and try to take it down right here. Not crazy about the turn bet, and I'm folding the river unless villain has given me reason to think he might be f.o.s.
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larsmars
Old 06-17-2007, 04:09 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I don't mind the flop check, looks like an ok spot to peel one off and keep the pot small. Also, I wouldn't mind a turn check, since worse hands will have a hard time calling two streets. If you check turn you might get some value from it on the river, partly from inducing bluffs. As played, you're usually toast when he takes initiative and bets full pot on the river.
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SHAKE
Old 06-17-2007, 07:35 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I agree with the turn check but checking this flop spells disaster, its going to make small flushes overplay and put you in a tough spot, if he had th A then flop check is OK, still 2nd best though with lead being number one. C-betting is such a huge importance in NL holdem. Hes giving up control of the hand when hes in a pretty decent spot on the flop, the main reason hes ok the is becase
A. He has position
B. he was the Pf raiser

There no need to give up controll on this hand here. he may very well have the higest heart, and his A and Q could be live. Not to mention he has pretty decent F-Equity here, keeping the pot small is a good idea but a c-bet WIL NOT bloat the pot.

Cbet -check-call

This line will extract alot of value from lower flushes along with minimizing loss when opp has the 6 or A

theres even an argument for b/f on the turn but i thin c/c the river is better.

if we're checked to on river i thing b/f is the right choice.

??
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jackvance
Old 06-18-2007, 12:50 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 If you had Th or Jh would you lead for full pot on the river? I think that kinda answers it..
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JeffreyGB
Old 06-18-2007, 03:45 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Maybe betting that flop is good at these levels...I don't know. Against players who like suited connectors and/or pairs and are willing to play back (i.e. what I think of as a standard 200NL player), I check that flop 90% of the time.

I call the river.
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JeffreyGB
Old 06-18-2007, 03:48 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Actually, I take that back. In the above, I was considering this flop a complete miss. It's not...With a pretty decent flush draw, I'm betting that flop a lot of the time too. Probably around 60%. In those instances I like shake's line.
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Knytestorme
Old 06-18-2007, 04:03 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Yeah, I think being in position I should have bet the flop and see if anyone played back or even just cold-called but I thought it better to take the free card and see if I got there rather than getting check-raised and put to a really hard decision off the bat by someone repping the made flush (which was on my mind as a few days earlier I had made the same play on a 3 flush board with AA and got come over the top of).

Once the turn gave the four flushI figured the call gave me an idea where I was, and the K on the river put in my mind there was only one card that was ahead of me (and yep, I misread the board....or more to the point didn't study it hard enough).

I figured he was making a play with a lesser heart hoping to push me off the pot but I need to remember that at these stakes, nuts oop will bet the river hard...needless to say, I was shown the 6.

I still don't mind my play but I think that I need to start evaluating river bets more carefully but not so carefully I can get pushed off the river every time with second nuts (or 3rd in this case).
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SHAKE
Old 06-18-2007, 03:10 PM #10 (permalink)  
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SHAKE
dont give up controll in these type of hands. 25-50NL are games that good players can dominate. If they arent folding you their SB 50+% of the time your not playing right.
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larsmars
Old 06-18-2007, 04:34 PM #11 (permalink)  
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SHAKE, if he had the ace of hearts, this flop is a standard b/3b.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knytestorme
Once the turn gave the four flushI figured the call gave me an idea where I was
No it didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackvance
If you had Th or Jh would you lead for full pot on the river?
Good point. Villain's line in this hand is very transparent.
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