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Stacked with top pair

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nooby

07-10-2007, 09:29 PM Post subject: Stacked with top pair

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 24

Words cant desribe how mad I am. I am currently in my 4th day of a downswing. 5 days ago I won over $75.00 in one day playing $5.50 heads up and 9 player sit n gos. Now I am slightly losing money over extended periods of time. So im definately losing right now, its just a very* slow process. I asked this forum a while ago what kind of roll I needed to play sit n gos, (heads up and one tabling). I was told around 30 buy ins. So now I have this rule where im playing with 30 buy ins for ring and tournaments, but as soon as I drop below the maximum height of my bankroll...I drop limits...period. For example, if my bankroll is $165.00 and I play in a $5.50 sit n go, and lose, I now have $159.50. Now I am still rolled to play in the $5.50's ( supposably), but since this COULD* be the start of a downswing, I drop limits in order to cushion the blow of the downswing until* I make it back to $165.00 at the lower limits.

Question #1: What do you all think of this rule? does it help me, does it hurt me, and finally why* do you believe that?

And finally the reason I made this post. UTG is totally semi-loose/tight-tight, or what most of you would call weak-tight. And button is semi-loose/tight-tight as well. Theyre both basically never raising preflop, either limping or calling raises. They both were calling around 35% of my preflop raises. But folding to 100% of my c-bets until this hand. I called this hand because I felt at worse I was either a coinflip to one or both of there hands, or I was the favorite. I was actually the first, a coinflip, so I was right. I was either goin to make a good hand and win with it, or simply get them to fold to aggression if I could represent something strong due to the flop texture. My hand plays awesome out of position, so im not worried about position really, yes everyone would like to be in position but you cant always have everything you want. My hand is big cards that either flop a big pair,or a big pair plus combo (ex. big pair+str8 draw, big pair+flush draw)...Where in the worst case scenario I can apply alot of aggression if they tend not to wanna fold there hand. All of this doesnt come in to play, I just want you to know what im thinking during my thought process in this hand.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.01/$0.02
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $0.37
CO: $2.06
Button: $6.76
SB: $4.40
hero: $6.66

Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is BB with :ah :js
UTG raises to $0.06, CO folds, Button calls $0.06 (pot was $0.09), SB folds, hero calls $0.04 (pot was $0.15).

Flop: :5s :3s :jh ($0.19, 3 players)
hero checks, UTG bets $0.06, Button raises to $0.12, hero raises to $0.75, UTG calls all-in $0.25, Button raises all-in $6.7, hero calls all-in $5.85.
Uncalled bets: $0.1 returned to Button.

Turn: :2d ($7.41, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $1.12, Sidepot 1: $12.58)

River: :ks ($7.41, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: $1.12, Sidepot 1: $12.58)

Results:
Final pot: $7.41
hero showed Ah Js
UTG mucks Qc 5c

UTG mucks Qc5c and button shows an wins with 3d3c. Now heres where I get super pissed. It makes me ponder wether its truely even worth the risk stacking off with more then around 100 big blinds with top pair (100 bb=$2.00). I mean it just seems like its just not worth the risk. Its not worth the dam guessing game. No matter what kind of opponent your up agaisnt. PERIOD. Why take a chance stacking off 100 big blinds with top pair when you can stack off 100 big blinds with a set, str8 or flush? Top pairs come around and go. As fast as you can raise preflop, hit top pair on the flop, and then bet pot and take it down with top pair. Theres no resistance, and theres no guessing if your opponent is raising you in or out of position with a monster like a set, or nothing like a straight or flush draw.

Question #2: Is it worth the risk stacking off agaisnt any* type of opponent with just top pair.

And finally, the reason I stacked off, I dont feel utg has anything worth calling me with, so never mind him, sorry, I just dont, his bet is weak, his style is weak. Now, we have 3 hands here that I felt my button could have and beat me with (33,55, and JJ). We have about 12 hands that im beating (AJO,AJS,KJS,QJS,JTS,J9S,T9S,98S,87S,76S,65S,54S. Now my instincts are screaming 'squeeze play", but I dont like going off of insticts because mine suck. But I do know that im ahead or at worse a coinflip agaisnt the range I put him on. I ran these hands though pokerstove and guess what, sure enough im 52.7% to win agaisnt his range. Well its costing me $5.85 into a pot of about $7.22. Im getting about 1.2:1 to call. Well enough to justify a profitable call. I also know he knows that I will check-raise out of position with a draw. Which at the time threw off my thinking because at the time I was thinking that he thought I migh be on a draw and was given me less credit for a real hand. But now that I think of it, if I thought, he thought, I had a draw, its very doubtfull both of us have a draw, hence he has a made hand. But that never crossed my mind at the time. So I call and all my wsop dreams go down the tube. (HAHAHAHA). Was it really worth it? Playing a guessing game for so much risk? I figured the hands, I was getting the odds, and truthfully, even if my range on the player is even semi accurate, its got huge variance. I mean even if I had the a set of fives here agaisnt his same range,im only a 62% favorite. Im really only dominating here with JJ with about 84% equity.

Question #3: Am I just playin scared, or was this a terrible call?

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Penfold

07-11-2007, 03:33 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 87

ok, gonna try and help here.
your bankroll management sounds fine for cash games, but i think trny and sngs players generally play with a little more, like 50 buyins, especially if you're multi tabling.

on to the hand. pre flop is ok, utg is very short and the button calls light. if the button is a tight and good player, this should be a fold because you're oop with something that is behind his range. still, you aren't putting yourself in a great spot playing AJ oop to a raise and a call no matter how loose this button is.

post flop is beyond horrible.
you said he plays very passive postflop, yet you stack off to him for 300+bbs with one pair?
we'll start with the c/r. you shouldnt be trying to check raise such passive players with a pair of jacks, as they are only betting if they make big hands. c/c or lead are both much better options. once you check and you see a bet, then a raise from a passive player without the betting lead, you should know that your jacks are in trouble. because they bet small you can call, but your decision is to call or fold, not call or raise. if he continues with his aggression on the turn this becomes a very clear fold.

you shouldnt be stacking off with 100 bbs, much less 325 bbs. your ranges that you put in to pokerstove are terrible. this type of player doesnt play draws that fast. against an aggressive player on this board those ranges are valid and an argument can be made for felting this hand with 100bbs, but never never with over 300bbs.

when playing against weak tights your decisions should be very easy. they play big hands fast, they call with draws and they fold if they dont have anything. no need to go to the 3rd level against these players.

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