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Some hands playing KK and AK

  
 
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Bear Bones
Old 09-27-2005, 01:48 PM     Post subject: Some hands playing KK and AK #1 (permalink)  
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Bear Bones
The table is tight passive for the most part with most pre-flop raises seeing one or two callers. I haven't been involved in many hands or shown much aggression when these two hands occurred. The first hand I hit KK and raised Pre flop for 4x BB ang it got folded back to me. The very next hand I got KK again and again raised 4xBB. I considered limping or a smaller raise to keep some people in, but was hoping that it would be seen as 2 steal attempts in a row and I would get some action.

################################################## ######
Stage #194227990: Holdem No Limit $0.10 [ 2005-09-26 19:14:05 ]
Seat 8 - WINDICTIVE $22.55 in chips
Seat 9 - BASSKING259 $17.30 in chips
Seat 1 - TANU30 $43.62 in chips
Seat 2 - PRESBLFC $58.65 in chips
Seat 3 - XXGUMBYXX $17.15 in chips
Seat 4 - GABBAGABAHEY $21.85 in chips
Seat 5 - OHBOBSAGET $48.30 in chips
Seat 6 - BEAR BONES $7.95 in chips
Seat 7 - SUPERGLUE66 $12 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 8] ***
BASSKING259 - Post small blind $0.10
TANU30 - Post big blind $0.25
BEAR BONES - Pocket [Ks,Kh]
PRESBLFC - Folds
XXGUMBYXX - Folds
GABBAGABAHEY - Folds
OHBOBSAGET - Folds
BEAR BONES - Raises $0.25 to $1
SUPERGLUE66 - Folds
WINDICTIVE - Folds
BASSKING259 - Folds
TANU30 - Folds
BEAR BONES - returned ($0.75) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BEAR BONES - Does not show
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($0.60)
Board []
TANU30 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
PRESBLFC - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
XXGUMBYXX - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
GABBAGABAHEY - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
OHBOBSAGET - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
BEAR BONES - Total ($0.60)
SUPERGLUE66 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
WINDICTIVE - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
BASSKING259 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
################################################## ######
Stage #194228306: Holdem No Limit $0.10 [ 2005-09-26 19:14:36 ]
Seat 9 - BASSKING259 $17.20 in chips
Seat 1 - TANU30 $43.37 in chips
Seat 2 - PRESBLFC $58.65 in chips
Seat 3 - XXGUMBYXX $17.15 in chips
Seat 4 - GABBAGABAHEY $21.85 in chips
Seat 5 - OHBOBSAGET $48.30 in chips
Seat 6 - BEAR BONES $8.30 in chips
Seat 7 - SUPERGLUE66 $12 in chips
Seat 8 - WINDICTIVE $22.55 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 9] ***
TANU30 - Post small blind $0.10
PRESBLFC - Post big blind $0.25
BEAR BONES - Pocket [Ks,Kc]
XXGUMBYXX - Folds
GABBAGABAHEY - Calls $0.25
OHBOBSAGET - Folds
BEAR BONES - Raises $0.25 to $1
SUPERGLUE66 - Calls $1
WINDICTIVE - Folds
BASSKING259 - Folds
TANU30 - Folds
PRESBLFC - Folds
GABBAGABAHEY - Calls $0.75
*** FLOP [Kh,3d,2c] ***
GABBAGABAHEY - Bets $0.50
BEAR BONES - ??

Do I come in with a raise here or slow play these?

Calls $0.50
SUPERGLUE66 - Raises $0.50 to $1
GABBAGABAHEY - Calls $0.50
BEAR BONES - Calls $0.50
*** TURN [Kh,3d,2c,Jh] ***
GABBAGABAHEY - Checks
BEAR BONES - Checks
SUPERGLUE66 - All-In $10
GABBAGABAHEY - Calls $10
BEAR BONES - All-In $6.30
*** RIVER [Kh,3d,2c,Jh,6d] ***
GABBAGABAHEY - Show cards [2h,Ah]
BEAR BONES - Show cards [Ks,Kc]
SUPERGLUE66 - Show cards [Qs,Qc]
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($32.65:$25.25,$7.40) Rake ($1.60)
Board [Kh,3d,2c,Jh,6d]
TANU30 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
PRESBLFC - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
XXGUMBYXX - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
GABBAGABAHEY - HI:One pair, twos [2h,Ah - P:2h,B:2c,P:Ah,B:Kh,B:Jh]
OHBOBSAGET - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
BEAR BONES - Total ($23.65) All-In HI$23.65)Three of a kind, kings
[Ks,Kc - P:Ks,B:Kh,P:Kc,B:Jh,B:6d]
SUPERGLUE66 - Total ($7.40) All-In HI$7.40)One pair, queens [Qs,Qc -
P:Qs,P:Qc,B:Kh,B:Jh,B:6d]
WINDICTIVE - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
BASSKING259 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
################################################## ######

In this hand, BassKing has just lost $20 about 10 hands before this and appeared to be steaming a bit. Gumby hasn't been real active. Pretty much slowly losing his buy-in. I am getting 2-1 on my money pre-flop with AKs and 2 players in. Is this a sure call or a fold against a big bet and a call?


################################################## ######
Stage #194244837: Holdem No Limit $0.10 [ 2005-09-26 19:40:59 ]
Seat 6 - BEAR BONES $22 in chips
Seat 7 - SIXPRIME1 $8.85 in chips
Seat 8 - WINDICTIVE $43.95 in chips
Seat 9 - BASSKING259 $9.15 in chips
Seat 1 - THEROCKETS $9.65 in chips
Seat 2 - PRESBLFC $57.75 in chips
Seat 3 - XXGUMBYXX $14.20 in chips
Seat 4 - GABBAGABAHEY $15.50 in chips
Seat 5 - OHBOBSAGET $48.40 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 6] ***
SIXPRIME1 - Post small blind $0.10
WINDICTIVE - Post big blind $0.25
BEAR BONES - Pocket [Kd,Ad]
BASSKING259 - All-In(Raise) $0.25 to $9.15
THEROCKETS - Folds (Timeout)
PRESBLFC - Folds
XXGUMBYXX - Calls $9.15
GABBAGABAHEY - Folds
OHBOBSAGET - Folds
BEAR BONES - Calls $9.15
SIXPRIME1 - Folds
WINDICTIVE - Folds
*** FLOP [Jc,9d,2s] ***
XXGUMBYXX - All-In $5.05
BEAR BONES - ??

Now I am getting 6.5 to 1 on my money, but am surely a dog. aces and kings may be outs, but I may be drawing dead to runner runner diamonds or Q T. Make this call? Make this call every time?

Calls $5.05
*** TURN [Jc,9d,2s,Qs] ***
*** RIVER [Jc,9d,2s,Qs,10d] ***
XXGUMBYXX - Show cards [9h,9c]
BEAR BONES - Show cards [Kd,Ad]
BASSKING259 - Show cards [8d,8s]
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($37.90:$27.80,$10.10) Rake ($1.85)
Board [Jc,9d,2s,Qs,10d]
THEROCKETS - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
PRESBLFC - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
XXGUMBYXX - HI:Three of a kind, nines [9h,9c - P:9h,B:9d,P:9c,B:Qs,B:Jc]
GABBAGABAHEY - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
OHBOBSAGET - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
BEAR BONES - Total ($36.05) HI$36.05)Straight, ten to ace [Kd,Ad -
P:Ad,P:Kd,B:Qs,B:Jc,B:10d]
SIXPRIME1 - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
WINDICTIVE - Folded on the POCKET CARDS
BASSKING259 - HI:Straight, eight to queen [8d,8s -
B:Qs,B:Jc,B:10d,B:9d,P:8s]
################################################## ######

Thanks for your comments - Bear Bones
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Rondavu
Old 09-27-2005, 02:47 PM #2 (permalink)  
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On the second KK hand, your question is what to do when someone leads out for 50¢ into a $3 pot on this board with one to act behind you...

[Kh,3d,2c]

My question to you is why did he bet 50¢? What hand does he likely have? He limped preflop. He might have A4s, or A5s. You have 3 of the kings. How likely is it that one of your opponents has the case king? Not very likely. You have to slowplay this hand, and allow for the unlikely wheel draw. Just call 50¢. I haven't seen results yet. Thanks for not showing.

In the second hand, you're likely up against QQ KK or AA. You have to call the final $5 because you already committed yourself. Cry and call. In the future, don't call such huge action preflop in a cash game unless you know both opponents to NOT be absolutely tight. Someone bet 28xBB, and someone proceeded to call 28xBB. I know it hurts, but fold AKs. You're up against at least one high pair. I don't blame you for calling, because you have a great hand with a great shot of winning. It wasn't a terrible call, but you tend to avoid gambling as a winning cash player. You ignored this tendancy.

Now I'll look at results and maybe feel weird.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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edudlive
Old 09-27-2005, 03:20 PM #3 (permalink)  
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edudlive
Hand 2) Just call and bet check raise the turn, I'll pay off the wheel everytime if thats what he has.

Hand 3) I ditch AKs preflop with that sort of action, at BEST all you can hope for is QQ (to which you're still a d0g)...which it probably isn't.
(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
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Bear Bones
Old 09-27-2005, 06:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the comments. I guess my question on the last hand is really how do the odds for AKs change with one player vs 2 players pre-flop. Against one player, I am probably laying this hand down depending on my read of the situation and the player making a move. In this case, my read was that I wasn't up against AA or KK from the first all-in and the second all in knew this and could have been coming in with AQs , AKs or any medium or hi pairs. Now I am getting 2 to 1 on my money when I think an A or a K or a flush will win the pot. Is this a +EV play or am I throwing off money to make this call?
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edudlive
Old 09-27-2005, 06:58 PM #5 (permalink)  
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edudlive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear Bones
Thanks for the comments. I guess my question on the last hand is really how do the odds for AKs change with one player vs 2 players pre-flop. Against one player, I am probably laying this hand down depending on my read of the situation and the player making a move. In this case, my read was that I wasn't up against AA or KK from the first all-in and the second all in knew this and could have been coming in with AQs , AKs or any medium or hi pairs. Now I am getting 2 to 1 on my money when I think an A or a K or a flush will win the pot. Is this a +EV play or am I throwing off money to make this call?
You're a 45-to-55 dog against any PP, so it isn't +EV, plus its very likely another opp made the same move with Ax or even AK, killing some of your outs

Lets say you're against JJ and QQ (likely), you're 36% to win while QQ is 44% to win (JJ isl ike 16 or something)

AQ vs AK vs QQ is very similiar, but QQ is over 50% to win (you're still at about 36%)

So yeah, you're getting the odds to call (you need about 3-to-1 to call), but I still wouldn't make this move
(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore
 
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