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Slow down here or no?

  
 
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DrNoChance
Old 09-18-2004, 08:11 PM     Post subject: Slow down here or no? #1 (permalink)  
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DrNoChance
Seems like I'm spamming this place with hand histories lately. I guess when your game hits rock bottom you start questioning everything

How much fear of the flush is healthy in a raised pot, heads up?

I get KK pre-flop, raise it a standard amount, one caller. I'm out of position.

Flop = J 9 rag, 2 spades.

I fire out a pot sized bet, he calls.

Turn = another rag spade.

I check, he checks.

River = blank

I check, he checks, and my hand is good.

Questions:

Considering that the odds of him having a made flush on turn is small, is it a leak to slow down on the turn? Should I be giving him a free chance to get the four to the board flush? Should I be giving him the chance to bet the scare card?

What if I had position there instead? Should I have bet the turn if he checked? If not, should I have value bet the river if he checked the river?
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michael1123
Old 09-19-2004, 12:40 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Too many questions ... I'm assuming you don't have the K of spades.

I slow down, but still bet the turn. Instead of another potsized bet, I'd bet whatever I bet at the flop again. Have to use your reading skills and what you know about the player if you're raised. Consider checking the river if they call, but I'd probably still bet it if there wasn't 4 to a flush or an ace on the river and they hadn't raised me on the turn. The ace would be a real scare card because the ace of clubs would likely call you on the turn, let alone AJ.

If you have position you absolutely have to bet the turn, and then check the river if you think they're slowplaying a flush. Checking the turn is begging for a big bet by them on the river no matter what they have, especially in 6 max. Problem is you don't get much information from their river bet that way. Plus, of course, you're giving a one card flush draw a free card, and the board is rags. Have to assume you're good here until they give you reason to believe that they have a flush.

But IF you had checked the turn, and they then checked the river, you can certainly safely bet. Very very rarely do people slowplay hands on the turn and again on the river, after it checks around on the turn. Exception is of course if there's 4 to a spade flush. Then its you're call whether you think you could bluff them out of a low flush, if you don't think they'd check a high one there. If not, check and hope they don't have a spade.

Again, I think you played this too passively for 6 max (assuming that's where this hand was). If I were him I'd think you had a hand like AK that was bluffing on the flop, or something like TT that is scared of the J.
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DrNoChance
Old 09-19-2004, 02:00 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael1123
Again, I think you played this too passively for 6 max (assuming that's where this hand was). If I were him I'd think you had a hand like AK that was bluffing on the flop, or something like TT that is scared of the J.
Yeah, my post hand thoughts too. It's way more likely here that I'm giving a four flush a free card here and/or opening myself up to a bluff rather than avoiding paying off a flush chaser.

Isn't running bad great? I've been drawn out on so damn much in the past two weeks that I just assume I'm beaten every time a scare card comes. I was way more passive here than I normally am, and I just needed to hear it from somebody else as well. I can't let running bad be an excuse for passivity and not protecting my hand.

Thanks for the feedback.
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