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Should I have called this?

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Pelion

04-06-2006, 10:40 PM Post subject: Should I have called this?

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Hes solid but hes been bullying me alot when I raise in late position. Planned to check/raise turn. Couldnt decide if that river was an overbet with a hand or a bluff. I folded it at the time but thinking back on it, I dont know why he would push with a hand there...except he probably knows that. Ive been TAG and hes probably noticed.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($15.90)
CO ($4.40)
Button ($13.20)
SB ($10.25)
BB ($27.20)
UTG ($12.45)
MP1 ($13.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K

, Q

.
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, Button calls $0.50, 2 folds.

Flop: ($1.15) 6

, K

, 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.8, Button raises to $3, Hero calls $2.20.

Turn: ($7.15) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($7.15) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $9.70 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $16.85

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

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Lukie

04-17-2006, 12:04 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: back with a vengeance

Posts: 3,307

I'd fold.

I'd also fold this flop unless the guy was a maniac. Pot is so tiny, there's 130bb behind, and your hand is just TPGK...

bair

04-17-2006, 05:10 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 953

tough...arguments can be made for folding and calling, id probably call just because it looks like some buttonplay to me, that As is a pretty damn good card to bluff on.

Miffed22001

04-17-2006, 10:47 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

two lines.
1. Fold the flop, hope hes holding a better hand (i bet he isnt)
2. 3 bet this flop line? Classic 10nl/20nl line is that if the A or Q flops ppl just instantly fold putting you on it (unless there a real donk) which is why you get a lot of players calling with Kxo and Jxo because they dont put you on that card preflop. However the raise is a lot here. Opp probably doesnt put you on the king then and is just bluffing either with nothing or a weaker king or has a set and knows how to get you pay him. As played his check behind on the turn is a monster and the river is a good fold.

One thing id say is do you need to raise 5bbs in lp with a possibly dominated hand? I know that raising here is good, and i like it but do you need to isolate so much. My reason for this is it inflates the pot a bit more preflop which is fine when you know (holding AQ/AK) you arent dominated but with KQ you may be.
Looking at this hand and the way opp plays if plus reads id either push or fold. Calling is the worst decision but feel free to counter that.

Pelion

04-17-2006, 10:53 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

One thing id say is that id be careful making such big preflop raisies in lp with a possibly dominated hand. While you dont want every donk and his kid in the pot behind you imo it inflates the pot preflop a bit too much for me.

I agree. My raises shrink alot on tighter tables, but on very loose tables I tend to go with 5BB + 1BB per limper. Ive been thinking about changing that to account for people folding infront of me, so 5 + 1 from EP and maybe 3 + 1 from LP.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Pelion

04-17-2006, 10:53 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Miffed22001

04-17-2006, 10:55 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I like that line better.
btw, did you consider the c/r flop line knowing opp is aggro and will prob bet putting you on a missed big A. and out of interest do you check raise the 10nl players a lot/any ?

Pelion

04-17-2006, 11:02 AM

#8 (permalink)

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I dont remember if i considered a check/raise. That could have worked out nicely though. I dont check/raise alot. Its something I should definatly do more of.
When I check/raise it tends to be either a small check/raise with a monster to help someone commit themselves, or with nothing when I think someone is trying to steal.

In general the players at these stakes bet too little and call too often so a check/raise is a good way to win the least/loose the most.
There definatly a few specific opponents i need to check/raise more though.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Miffed22001

04-17-2006, 11:15 AM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Hes solid but hes been bullying me alot when I raise in late position

Thats a lot of reasons for me to look toward a c/r against this opp i think.
Add the fact that you havent c/r a lot (i assume if you dont do it a lot) and the fact that he may not necessarily put you on the king. I ted to make up my mind preflop with premium hands that contain a king if im gona check raise the king if it falls. This will also give you some fold equity with AQ on a kxx flop too rather than the standard c-bet line.
Only options to consider btw.

andy-akb

04-17-2006, 02:03 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,836

Not to hijack the thread, but what conditions do you typically check raise and what do you hope to achieve with that line? I barely ever check raise except for a set on a non scary board because Im not all that sure of when to use it.

Miffed22001

04-17-2006, 02:25 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

as i said, for me a flopped pair of kings with AK or something is a typical hand i might check raise facing an opp in position behind me. Essentially a lot of players tend to think that if you checked a flop you missed (also perhaps that you are slow playing a monster too) For me, i dveloped the c/r line because i was fed up of getting called on Axx flops with KK knowing i was beat. The same was with ragedy flops. Now to try and create a little more fold equity and to get ppl married to their weaker hands i decided to check raise. For example if i raise to 4bbs preflop and flop is 38T rainbow and you now ill check when my overs miss then you an bet this flop a lot and steal the pot whether you have air or a hand tp or a pp. If however, you know im capable of a c/r line with a big pp here (or for that mtter air) you bet instantly becomes a bit more difficult. If you 3/4 pot it behind are you going to be facing a c/r, then if you 3 bet me thinking your good with a pair or tp and i push how often can you call.
Essnetially what im trying to achieve with a c/r line is 3 fold.
1. Im hiding the strength of my hand against either wary opponents or bad opponents. Im also at times potecting from being bluffed on later streets or from paying off monsters.
2. Im creating fold equity because you dont really know how strong my hand is. yes it takes a bit of balls to c/r a rag flop with inly ace high but it gives you action where you want it more often.
3. Opps get married to their hands that are tp or pps more often than they should. This is especially effective i found at smaller stakes when your playing some donk who likes his pair on a crap board even though you are ahead. More often than not he wont respect the c/r becasue he sucks and will tack off because fish too often think a c/r is air (and they dont like being bluffed when they have the best of it)
Of course the down side to check riaisng is that it often builds big pot oop, so really we are looking for opp to get out of the pot once we do it and when we start getting 3bet/ pushed on we have to be able to recognise a flopped set/two pair.

Thsoe are just my general ideas on it right now.

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