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Should I assume I'm beat here?

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r8ed

11-01-2005, 04:59 AM Post subject: Should I assume I'm beat here?

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

I thought I had AQ trapped here or he missed the straight and tried to bluff it.

***** Hand History for Game 2962135914 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, October 31, 23:20:12 EDT 2005
Table Table 69165 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: louissr ( $20.10 )
Seat 2: sparklomatic ( $14.70 )
Seat 3: Pedro55555 ( $9.15 )
Seat 4: dheis ( $31.10 )
Seat 5: jabbasteve ( $23.10 )
Seat 7: wightmanp ( $14.50 )
Seat 8: soloxhale ( $32.10 )
Seat 9: cattleina ( $27.24 )
Seat 10: jandje ( $47.40 )
Seat 6: TomBuj ( $14.50 )
TomBuj posts small blind [$0.10].
wightmanp posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to jandje [ 5s 5h ]
soloxhale calls [$0.25].
cattleina calls [$0.25].
jandje calls [$0.25].
louissr calls [$0.25].
sparklomatic calls [$0.25].
Pedro55555 folds.
dheis folds.
jabbasteve folds.
TomBuj calls [$0.15].
wightmanp checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qs, 5d, Ah ]
TomBuj checks.
wightmanp bets [$0.25].
soloxhale calls [$0.25].
cattleina calls [$0.25].
jandje raises [$0.50].
louissr folds.
sparklomatic folds.
TomBuj calls [$0.50].
wightmanp calls [$0.25].
soloxhale calls [$0.25].
cattleina calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9h ]
TomBuj checks.
wightmanp checks.
soloxhale bets [$2].
cattleina folds.
jandje raises [$10].
TomBuj folds.
wightmanp folds.
soloxhale calls [$8].
** Dealing River ** [ 4c ]
soloxhale is all-In.
jandje calls [$21.35].
soloxhale shows [ 9c, 9d ] three of a kind, nines.
jandje shows [ 5s, 5h ] three of a kind, fives.
soloxhale wins $63.95 from the main pot with three of a kind, nines.
dheis has left the table.

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11-01-2005, 05:13 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Pingviini

11-01-2005, 09:26 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Bangkok

Posts: 1,090

Limping is justified as well, implied odds with a set against Ax hitting A are high enough in nl25, this wasnt nl50 (.25/.50). Especially if the game is so loose that they are not going to fold PF, depends on the table.. But there was no point min-raising on the flop, that just sucks. I would've raised the pot with so many callers, A with descent kicker might call, and if somebody has 2 pair they are going all the way. Turn and river were fine.

This is abit off topic but I dont like limping in tournaments when the blinds reach 25/50 because your folding equity is much higher in tournaments and the blinds are more valuable for you there. On the other hand I understand the idea of raising to juice up the pot, but only when they arent paying you off in unraised pots.

my €0.02

"Poker is a simple math game" -Aba20

r8ed

11-01-2005, 02:19 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Yeah, the min-raise was pretty horrible. I think I"m being slick sometimes and I'm really getting myslef into trouble. But, you gotta try different things to see how effective they are. I was hoping to get all those people to call or get reraised and then drop the hammer. I know set over set is rare, so that's why I tried this out. I thought this was the perfect flop for 55. Somebody is bound to have and Ace or inside draw and may pay me off. The turn card looked perfect too. Still no flush or str8 and the board didn't pair.

My stack was over $100 a this table before I logged off after playing 2 hours. I had them guessing the whole time by mixing up the betting pattern.

I don't get overly aggressive when my stack is big, so I don't start raising PPs lower than JJ just because I'm up. The reason is - I'm playing 4 tables and won't have as good reads on players to make some post flop plays when my PP misses after I raise preflop. I thnk it would just drain my stack to raise and miss 7 times in a row and then try to make it back when I do hit. If I'm in a tourny or playing less tables I think I could pull it off easier. I'd rather see the flop as cheap as possible and take it from there. When I move up high enough, this will have to be something I work on. Right now it's about building my bankroll at 25NL.

bair

11-02-2005, 01:26 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 953

i disagree with raising preflop. limping is fine. postflop play was terrible. why on earth would you EVER minraise 3 callers?

Fnord

11-02-2005, 01:29 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

1x the bb into a pot bigger than 2x the bb isn't a bet, it's a failure to make a decision. Thank him for priming the pump and make a real bet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Demiparadigm

11-02-2005, 01:51 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

My stack was over $100 a this table before I logged off after playing 2 hours. I had them guessing the whole time by mixing up the betting pattern.

Results oriented?
You're not making this type of money consistently at $25NL, so why is it applicable?

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

Fnord

11-02-2005, 02:00 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

I'd rather see the flop as cheap as possible and take it from there.

Just curious, how many big winners think like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

KoRnholio

11-02-2005, 02:35 AM

#9 (permalink)

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KoRnholio will become famous soon enough

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

I'd rather see the flop as cheap as possible and take it from there.

Just curious, how many big winners think like this?

If I had pocket 5's UTG+2 in this hand after 2 limpers, I'll limp and see what develops. If it's raised behind me I will see if it is still worth chasing a set. Then with that flop, I am going to bet ~$1.50-2 (pot is $2.50 when it gets to me) and hope to bring some Ax's along for a ride.

By no means am I a big winner at NL ring games, but at a loose/passive NL 50 game I'll limp with any pair hoping to get paid off. No sense raising it pre-flop and getting 3-4 callers (with countless overcards.. Q8o, AT, 98s) then laying my small pair down unimproved.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

TalentedTom

11-02-2005, 02:58 AM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Toronto

Posts: 289

Min raise = gives AQ PROPER ODDS TO MAKE BOAT + it invites other hands to break you at a very small cost

Everyone seems to be getting in the habbit of slowplaying and having their opponents draw out... Hmm. Perhaps there is some correlation between passive play and suckouts.

you have trips on a PERFECT flop, play this fast and feirce, any fish who has AJ AQ, AT AK, A9, you can take their stack, if you think someone had AQ break them now why keep messing around, it will only cause problems.

Tom.S

r8ed

11-02-2005, 05:47 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Quote:

My stack was over $100 a this table before I logged off after playing 2 hours. I had them guessing the whole time by mixing up the betting pattern.

Results oriented?
You're not making this type of money consistently at $25NL, so why is it applicable?

Yes, I'm results oriented. What's the point of playing if you don't care about results? I was pointing out that by mixing up the betting on this table I was able to keep them guessing enough that I came out way ahead despite this poor play. And how do you know how much I'm making at 25NL? I'm doing well. Not tripling my buyin every table, but I'm doing well. I invite you to stop chiming in on my posts because you don't offer anything constructive. Other people are questioning my play and logic, which is fine.

r8ed

11-02-2005, 05:54 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

I'd rather see the flop as cheap as possible and take it from there.

Just curious, how many big winners think like this?

I don't know the answer to this, but I think many people on here limp pocket pairs and do very well. In a cash game, I don't think it's worth it to raise PPs under TT preflop if you can limp. It seems like it will drain money and put pressure on yourself to make something happen post flop when you miss since you already invested something.

Fnord

11-02-2005, 06:33 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by r8ed

I'd rather see the flop as cheap as possible and take it from there.

Just curious, how many big winners think like this?

Point taken, bad context to bring up this discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

mxiu

11-02-2005, 08:36 AM

#14 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 982

Everyone already ripped you up about the min-raise, so I don't need to go there. Post turn, you can't assume you're beaten under these circumstances and how you played the flop. I definitely call the river.

I don't agree with Ripptyde's post about raising it pre-flop all the time. I think limping here is much more profitable because what are you going to do the other 7/8 times when you miss the flop, and an ace drops? You throw out a continuation bet since you're most likely going to be first to act since you raised pre-flop, then you end up getting called down by the fish with Ax. You're losing a lot of BB's here that way at 25NL, IMO.

Fnord

11-02-2005, 08:44 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mxiu

I don't agree with Ripptyde's post about raising it pre-flop all the time. I think limping here is much more profitable because what are you going to do the other 7/8 times when you miss the flop, and an ace drops? You throw out a continuation bet since you're most likely going to be first to act since you raised pre-flop, then you end up getting called down by the fish with Ax. You're losing a lot of BB's here that way at 25NL, IMO.

I like a raise in many of the games I've been playing in. Continuation bets work a lot because many players are too weak to play back, but too strong to call down light; they tend not to go broke in unraised pots and I can take a free turn card if I'd like. However, in a loose $25 NL or just about any Live game under $1k where players give way too much action in unraised pots, limping is clearly the best play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

mxiu

11-02-2005, 08:55 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 982

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by mxiu

All I've been playing are live games, so maybe my opinion is a bit skewed here. I can see where you're coming from.

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