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Set with draws on flop

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johnny_fish

11-01-2005, 02:23 AM Post subject: Set with draws on flop

#1 (permalink)

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No particular reads. My table image is probably a bit loose, because of some failed cbets.. The bold part is what I'm unsure of, all other actions seem standard. Thoughts?

** Game ID 561987669 starting - 2005-11-01 03:16:53
** Lazy Days [Hold 'em] (0.25|0.50 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- skunkpie sitting in seat 1 with $65.65
- january09 sitting in seat 2 with $49.00
- uglystick sitting in seat 3 with $57.10
- johnny291281 sitting in seat 4 with $51.50
- Cib sitting in seat 5 with $50.15
- rajmando1 sitting in seat 6 with $48.20
- MissMuffet sitting in seat 7 with $55.20
- sumitup sitting in seat 8 with $4.60
- Dakuna sitting in seat 9 with $18.60 [Dealer]
- PompeyChimes sitting in seat 10 with $30.00 [Sitting out]

skunkpie posted the small blind - $0.25
january09 posted the big blind - $0.50
** Dealing card to johnny291281: 8 of Diamonds, 8 of Clubs
uglystick called - $0.50
johnny291281 called - $0.50
Cib folded
rajmando1 folded
MissMuffet folded
sumitup folded
Dakuna called - $0.50
skunkpie folded
january09 checked

** Dealing the flop: 6 of Spades, 10 of Hearts, 8 of Hearts
january09 bet - $0.50
uglystick folded
johnny291281 raised - $2.50
Dakuna folded
january09 raised - $8.50
johnny291281 raised - $22.50
january09 went all-in - $40.50
johnny291281 called - $49.00
january09 shows: 7 of Diamonds, 9 of Spades

** Dealing the turn: King of Diamonds

** Dealing the river: 7 of Clubs
january09 wins $97.25 from the main pot

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DaHorror

11-01-2005, 04:48 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Whether or not the bolded raise was a correct move depends on what you are trying to do by it...were you raising for information? If so, you didn't act on it.
If you thought you had the better hand, but that he had a good second-best hand then your play was fine, though you might just push outright if you were going to call his allin anyway (meaning forget the raise to 22.50 just push).

Fnord

11-01-2005, 04:55 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHorror

Whether or not the bolded raise was a correct move depends on what you are trying to do by it...were you raising for information? If so, you didn't act on it.

If you EVER raise middle set on a draw heavy board "for information", quit playing poker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

r8ed

11-01-2005, 06:00 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHorror

Whether or not the bolded raise was a correct move depends on what you are trying to do by it...were you raising for information? If so, you didn't act on it.

If you EVER raise middle set on a draw heavy board "for information", quit playing poker.

I don't think he's raising to get information here...but he happens to get information by doing so.

The conversation when like this:
january09 bet - $0.50
"I'm probing to see if anyone has anything and to look weak"
johnny291281 raised - $2.50
"I have something, you should fold"
january09 raised - $8.50
"I have something better, you should fold".
johnny291281 raised - $22.50
"No really, stap away from the draw - it's for your own good"
january09 went all-in - $40.50
"It's not a draw - you lose"
johnny291281 called - $49.00
"I don't believe you"
january09 shows: 7 of Diamonds, 9 of Spades
"Told you"

Fnord

11-01-2005, 06:01 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Putting him on 97 or TT is way too weak. We have lots of outs against 97, TT stacks us and everything else that plays this way we beat.

Both players had big hands and all the money got into the middle *shrug*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

johnny_fish

11-01-2005, 06:19 PM

#6 (permalink)

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I thought it was either all-in or fold. I thought folding was -EV, so I reraised big. If I went all-in immediately only 97 would call..

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 34.8990 % 34.44% 00.45% { 8c8d }
Hand 2: 65.1010 % 64.65% 00.45% { 9s7d }

So (@r8ed) it wasn't "I don't believe you", but more like "I believe you but I got outs''

Fnord

11-01-2005, 06:46 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

If I went all-in immediately only 97 would call..

..because players at this level only call all-ins with the nuts?!?!?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Iwind

11-01-2005, 10:36 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Posts: 436

They'd call all in with two pair, other sets, some with draws and some with top pair with ace kicker. At least players do where I play, wich is nice. Depends on reads on the player though, but since you didn't have any and your image was loose I think many could call all in with much worse hands than yours.

Lukie

11-01-2005, 10:46 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Against 79, pocket 8's have 7 clean outs on the turn then 10 on the river. Without looking at the stack sizes and pot size, it seemed that even if he showed you he had 79 when he finally pushed, you would still have pot odds to call. You certainly aren't going to fold to TT.

Again, I didn't really take a very in depth look at the hand, but when I raise somebody, then they come back over top of me, I'm generally not going to re-raise again, committing myself in the future. It's push/fold time, and in this instance, it would be a very clear push. Again, I didn't really look at the stack sizes and pot sizes, but after scanning it for 15 seconds I probably would have played it that way.

mxiu

11-02-2005, 09:12 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHorror

Whether or not the bolded raise was a correct move depends on what you are trying to do by it...were you raising for information? If so, you didn't act on it.

If you EVER raise middle set on a draw heavy board "for information", quit playing poker.

I just wanted to get a little reasoning here, I don't quite understand the obviousness of your statement.

sejje

11-02-2005, 02:31 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mxiu

I just wanted to get a little reasoning here, I don't quite understand the obviousness of your statement.

I believe he's saying we're not trying to find out if our hand is best. This isn't TPTK.

We're raising this to charge draws and get as much money in as possible with the probable best hand.

ensign_lee

11-02-2005, 03:35 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mxiu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHorror

Whether or not the bolded raise was a correct move depends on what you are trying to do by it...were you raising for information? If so, you didn't act on it.

If you EVER raise middle set on a draw heavy board "for information", quit playing poker.

I just wanted to get a little reasoning here, I don't quite understand the obviousness of your statement.

This bet is not for information. This bet is to get money in there so that I can get paid.

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johnny_fish

11-02-2005, 09:15 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

If I went all-in immediately only 97 would call..

..because players at this level only call all-ins with the nuts?!?!?

No, but a raise to 20 scares less than raising AI. It's essentially the same, but I think I get some calls from opps who don't immediately see that they're committed anyway.

I do it sometimes when there's e.g. 30$ in the pot and opp has 10$ left.. It seems to work very well to bet first 4$ and on the next street the last 6$.

Fnord

11-02-2005, 09:17 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

No, but a raise to 20 scares less than raising AI. It's essentially the same, but I think I get some calls from opps who don't immediately see that they're committed anyway.

Much better answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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