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HiLo
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02-04-2008, 01:10 PM
Post subject: SB - Odds needed to complete
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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Do you guys use a rule of thumb for odds needed to complete the small blind in situations where the hand isn't strong enough for a raise? If so, what odds are you looking for for different ranges?
e.g. thinking like:
7:1 - AXs, weaker suited broadways
9:1 - 54s+,
11:1 - any suited, JT+
etc....
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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The problem here is a pretty bad case of reverse implied odds.
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HiLo
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
The problem here is a pretty bad case of reverse implied odds.
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A somewhat cryptic response, but I assume you mean "don't complete the small blind with trash cos you could lose your whole stack flush over flush etc"??
If so, I can't see how this applies to to all the weaker holdings (esp. AXs), and isn't it dependent on how cautious we are with marginal hands post flop and also on the strength of the opps...
Obv the above means that there can be no solid rule for when we have odds to play which is why i said "rule of thumb" in the OP.... i.e. a starting point to make adjustment from...
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Getting stacked flush over flush isn't the problem. The problem is all of the times we'll pay-off second best, all of the bets we'll miss because we're out of position in a small pot and the added cost of having to draw out of position.
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HiLo
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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So are you saying that you never complete the SB with weak SCs etc because of all the disadvantages whatever the odds?
What about if you are in an uber loose-passive game full of noobs so your post flop edge is huge. Everyone limps, and you are getting 19:1 to call with 65s. Surely this is a call?
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Jimmy Mac
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Drinking your milkshake.
Posts: 950
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HiLo
What about if you are in an uber loose-passive game full of noobs so your post flop edge is huge. Everyone limps, and you are getting 19:1 to call with 65s. Surely this is a call?
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Thats a pretty clear call for me. I'm pretty tight out of the SB though, my VP$IP is similar to my button VP$IP (just over 20%). I generally stick to hands that can make the nuts.
The important thing is not to spew postflop when you flop a weak pair or draw.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,521
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac
The important thing is not to spew postflop when you flop a weak pair or draw.
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Yeah I've been wondering how you guys play situations like say 97s in the SB, limped pot when the flop comes 257 rainbow. Any point in betting this?
How about K5s on a KT4 rainbow board?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Massivly multi-way I check both. 3 or 4 way I'm lead bluffing a lot unless people are continuing with weak hands.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I've started completing a bit more from the SB since I've noticed that a lot of the people I'm playing with suck as bad or worse than I do.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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HiLo
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
I've started completing a bit more from the SB since I've noticed that a lot of the people I'm playing with suck as bad or worse than I do.
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Me too. I felt I was probably losing a lot of value by playing too tight in the SB and have made an effort to improve my play from this position. (Last 25k hands I have been 19/7 from the SB). This is why I was asking about this originally...
On a similar subject - What sort of winrate from the SB would indicate that I am playing well or badly from here? I have no idea what it should be. Currently I am losing at (0.09ptBB/hand) which equates to + 0.16ptBB/hand diff w/o blind.
I have no idea whether this is even good or bad!
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