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Fnord

05-05-2004, 12:32 PM Post subject: Save the rake!

#1 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Was it a bad idea to assume a split pot on the river and shut down the betting?

***** Hand History for Game 575426783 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (PL) - Tue May 04 21:26:45 EDT 2004
Table Dazzling Nights (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Player1 ( $39.35)
Seat 2: Fnord ( $25)
Seat 3: Player3 ( $24)
Seat 4: Player4 ( $25.80)
Seat 5: Player5 ( $24)
Seat 6: Player6 ( $30.45)
Seat 7: Player7 ( $25)
Seat 8: Player8 ( $43)
Seat 10: Player10 ( $61.50)
Player5 posts small blind (0.25)
Player6 posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Fnord [ 2s, As ]
Player8 calls (0.50)
Player10 folds.
Player1 folds.
Fnord calls (0.50)
Player3 folds.
Player4 calls (0.50)
Player5 calls (0.25)
Player6 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ts, Jc, Kh ]
Player5 checks.
Player6 checks.
Player8 checks.
Fnord checks.
Player4 bets (0.50)
Player5 calls (0.50)
Player6 calls (0.50)
Player8 calls (0.50)
Fnord calls (0.50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qd ]
Player5 bets (4.75)
Player6 folds.
Player8 folds.
Fnord calls (4.75)
Player4 calls (4.75)
** Dealing River ** : [ 5h ]
Player5 checks.
Fnord: save the rake
Fnord checks.
Player4 checks.
** Summary **
Main Pot: $18.30 | Rake: $0.95
Board: [ Ts Jc Kh Qd 5h ]
Player1 balance $39.35, didn't bet (folded)
Fnord balance $37.55, bet $5.75, collected $18.30, net +$12.55 [ 2s As ] [ a straight, ten to ace -- As,Kh,Qd,Jc,Ts ]
Player3 balance $24, didn't bet (folded)
Player4 balance $20.05, lost $5.75 [ Jh Td ] [ two pairs, jacks and tens -- Kh,Jh,Jc,Td,Ts ]
Player5 balance $18.25, lost $5.75 [ 9h Kc ] [ a straight, nine to king -- Kc,Qd,Jc,Ts,9h ]
Player6 balance $29.45, lost $1 (folded)
Player7 balance $25, sits out
Player8 balance $42, lost $1 (folded)
Player10 balance $61.50, didn't bet (folded)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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Fnord

05-05-2004, 02:47 PM

#2 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Anyone? Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller, Bueller, Bueller...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

maxxscam

05-05-2004, 02:56 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2004

Posts: 734

who knows what that guy was thinking, guess he figured he might have a shot at a boat and wanted some cash in there if he did hit it and then could make you think you were still gonna split the potafter he had his boat to make you lose a big stack. but in the end you toook his money no worries

maxxscam

05-05-2004, 02:59 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2004

Posts: 734

i would adone same as you and put him on the ace and not thrown a bet out there to save the rake, but who know.
one time i saw hand go to showdown and it was AKQJ 10 on tyhe oart, the nut straight, no flush chances out there, this guy bets 20$ after the river comes, so 2 of us of course bet it as well, and we all split the pot, what an idiot, probly a party poker bot or some shit

Fnord

05-05-2004, 03:04 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxscam

Yeah, 2 pair is calling the turn for any reasonable price. I correctly went for the over-call there, also factoring in that another Ace might be in the hand. The only part I'm second guessing here is calling out my hand on the river and checking. I didn't think it was likely anyone without an Ace would call and an idiot with an Ace might go all-in raking out whatever profit we had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

xbones

05-05-2004, 03:13 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: Isle of Man, GB

Posts: 264

I had this where the Straight A high was on the board, guy goes all in with $50, so it was a $150+ pot as there were 3 of us in it.

Fnord

05-05-2004, 03:17 PM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Interesting side note, this is case study on why K9o (Fido) sucks at a full table. Hooked in with not only the second best made hand, but the second best draw too!

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...2&highlight=k9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

crazyeddie

05-05-2004, 03:58 PM

#8 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2004

Location: VA

Posts: 97

fnord,

the only thing that might make me think that there weren't three aces out was the pre-flop play...

I also was little surprised you didn't baby-raise on the turn to gain info from player 5, who was clearly representing the straight.

Otherwise, there was no way you could have known. Unless you suspected that ONE of the other two had the sucker straight, in which case you should bet a mid-sized bet to get the call and spilt it with the other ace.

Fnord

05-05-2004, 04:15 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyeddie

the only thing that might make me think that there weren't three aces out was the pre-flop play...

On the river, I was pretty sold on there being one more Ace out, loose passive players just love limping in with Ace-little offsuit. I just didn't think the odd man out was likely enough to call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyeddie

I also was little surprised you didn't baby-raise on the turn to gain info from player 5, who was clearly representing the straight.

I really like the call here. Player5 suddenly woke up from check/call to betting pot. If he's got an Ace, raising is -EV both because of the rake and it will likely scare off Player4 (who opened last round) from making a weak call, maybe chasing a full house with a set or 2 pair. Finally, if he's bluffing, I don't want to discourage him from firing off another round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyeddie

Otherwise, there was no way you could have known. Unless you suspected that ONE of the other two had the sucker straight, in which case you should bet a mid-sized bet to get the call and spilt it with the other ace.

Yeah, that's the part I'm wondering about. How likely is a weaker hand going to be out there after that turn bet, how likely is he to call anything on the river and how likely is an idiot to go all-in with another Ace.

The other part I'm wondering about is should I have even bothered with the call on the flop since I might be chasing half a pot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Toasty

05-06-2004, 08:55 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

maybe i'm playing this wrong but if i'm pretty sure i'm in a split pot i'll sometimes go all in to try to scare them off the pot, if its a three way usually one of them has the weaker hand so its still worth betting imo.

In SS Doyle reveals a great trick for split pots in live games. It goes :

You and another person are in a split pot with the nut straight on 4th street. You know as he has just reraised you and tried to take the lead. What you do is study the flop as if you didnt realise the straight was close and then after some time say "damn it i call" if the 5th card pairs the board you move all in straight away. The other straight if any good will think you have hit your FH and fold the split pot

This can work online if the players are good enough to see what hand you are representing a lot just play there own cards though.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

Fnord

05-06-2004, 01:25 PM

#11 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toasty

In this case, there is no scare card. Any Ace is the nut and the level of stupidity required to fold that hand is even below someone that just came off the short bus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Toasty

05-06-2004, 02:25 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

hehe Fnord you would be amazed how many people would fold that hand...

Remember some of these callers are the same people who will call a huge bet because they "have a feeling"

It never ceases to amaze me what some people will fold and call / raise with in poker. In the above example i wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if someone had the lower end and another person had top pair or two pairs.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

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