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zook
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11-19-2006, 06:31 AM
Post subject: Rivered nut flush oop
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Villain is a fish. Hasn't folded to any of my c-bets, but usually folds the turn or river. The one pot he's won from me he called my flop c-bet and open-pushed the turn for pot and a half. Stats are 41/7/1.5 over 200+ hands.
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Holdem Ring game - Blinds: $0.50/$1 - 9 players Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $65.95
UTG+1: $105.70
MP1: $209.55
MP2: $49.50
MP3: $16.10
CO: $60
Button: $72.40
Hero: $129
BB: $95
Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with A 7
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero calls, BB (poster) checks.
Flop: 3 K 4 ($5, 5 players)
Hero bets $4, BB calls, 3 folds.
Turn: 2 ($13, 2 players)
Hero bets $10, BB calls.
River: Q ($33, 2 players)
Hero ???
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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Bet. He likely calls with more hands than he bets with and unless he's a total moron he's not going to call a check-raise.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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bet 16
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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pokerroomace
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 783
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i agree. bet anywhere between 10 and 25. 16 is good.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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*double post*
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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I bet 30 and pray that he has the Jc or that he'll take the old "there's no way he'd bet that much with the nuts, I'm gonna push him off it" line. In the rare cases he does raise, I think a min-3bet is in order.
My decision would probably be affected by how large bets he has folded to on the turn/river previously.
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TerryToma
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 823
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my first instinct was to over-bet push.
you could think, think.. push. probably will fold but someone may call enough times that overall you make more $$.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I bet $20, he called and showed 9c9x. No one likes a c/r here? Make it look like I'm scared of the fourth club? Given villain's propensity for chasing draws, I was pretty sure he made a flush on the river.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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only checkraise if the K and Q aren't out
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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since they aren't, valuebetting is the only viable option
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
only checkraise if the K and Q aren't out
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Please to splain... you don't think he's betting his flush on the river here?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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betting with a 9? Maybe, possibly not.
Betting and calling a raise with a 9? Not unless he's real real bad. You said he's a fish, but I think even a fish would fold this. Also, fish aren't generally very aggressive, so checkraises tend to suck vs them anyway.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Also, if he doesn't have a club there are still lots of hands that fish call with on this river. Straights, sets, KQ and perhaps even lower two-pairs are all candidates for a call followed by a "omfg rivered again" chatbox comment. Few of these hands will bet, though, and none will call a raise.
the only value in checking comes from aggro players bluffing the flush at us.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
Betting and calling a raise with a 9? Not unless he's real real bad. You said he's a fish, but I think even a fish would fold this. Also, fish aren't generally very aggressive, so checkraises tend to suck vs them anyway.
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Good points.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvSame
the only value in checking comes from aggro players bluffing the flush at us.
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I disagree. There are hands passive, bad players will just call a river bet with but will bet if checked to and call a river c/r with. Not sure the fourth nut flush is one of those hands though.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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halvsame, fourflush boards where we have the ace are very often great spots for c/ring the river, particularly when we put them on the King or Queen. See some gabe hand in highstakes for a good example. I think the thread was called "5/10 river check with nuts" or something like that.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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NLHE T&P has a good section on river c/r's too.
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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I would bet half to 2/3 pot. I don't think he bets if checked to.
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that we should never c/r the river (although my pt database shows me that is not in my arsenal yet :P). But on this particular hand, after smooth calling flop and turn, I just don't see villain betting the river. If he has a somewhat strong hand I think he'd have raised somewhere earlier.
I'm gonna look up that thread, and I've started reading NLTAP so I expect to come across that chapter soon  . (Yeah, I should have gotten the book earlier.)
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