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River play here, and response to allin overbluff...

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DaHorror

03-24-2006, 08:48 PM Post subject: River play here, and response to allin overbluff...

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

Opponent is this hand is pretty much the table donkey - minraises AA preflop in the BB into a table full of limpers, then can't let go of it to the K6s guy that flopped two pair.
She seemed to like to call flop continuation bluffs to see if they would check the turn etc.
However, she bet what she had, I didn't see any ridiculous bluffs outta her. Just stupid play, sometimes lucky.

This board isn't overly scary, but I could be in trouble. I bet the flop obviously, then bet the turn lightly to not pot-commit myself, and would likely fold to a reraise here, and I don't think that she is drawing.

I have been the victim of several river overbluffs...one was the flopped nut flush...the other was the flopped nut straight (me with AA on a AKT board)...there have been a few missed flushes - but I called those with specific reads on the bluffer, so my experience has been that, from a generally unknown, it is not a bluff but an overbet from someone who either wants it to look that way (not this opponent) or someone who just doesn't know how to bet for value.

This was a toughie. Comments welcome. Particularly, How much to I bet on the turn (I think I was a little weak) and river, and of course your opinion on the call/fold.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($22.70)
MP1 ($26.95)
MP2 ($16.35)
CO ($49.25)
Button ($29.60)
SB ($10.05)
BB ($24.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K

, K

. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
Hero raises to $1.5, MP1 calls $1.50, 5 folds.

Flop: ($3.35) 7

, 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.5, MP1 calls $2.50.

Turn: ($8.35) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $4, MP1 calls $4.

River: ($16.35) 3

(2 players)

River play and Results in white below:
Hero checks, MP1 is all-in ($18 ish), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $16.35

MP1 shows...
Outcome: MP1 wins $16.35.

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nutsinho

03-25-2006, 04:14 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt

Posts: 3,280

Bet 6$, fold to push...
As played I might call

My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.

DaHorror

03-25-2006, 07:09 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 616

A more detailed question here, as it looks more like I'm asking whether or not I should call the river, and this is one of those "you'll never know for sure unless you call" kinda hands.

But I'm noticing this pattern with several of my posts (and multiple hands besides these few examples), that I have the habit of being mildly scared of a flop, betting out for information, continuing too weakly on the turn, and then just checking the river.
The reason I think that I do this is that I am legitimately unsure of my hand, and don't want to end up pot committed to call some ridiculous river bet when I'm pretty sure I'm beat, but don't have enough behind relative to the pot to give it up.
So I tend to bet 1/2 pot on the turn and check the river. The problem that I have with this is that worse hand may still be able to push me off as my line seems like that of an overbluffer with a missed AK.
This seems to happen most frequently when I have a big pair out of position on a 'possibly' scary flop.

So what I'm wondering - is it better to:
(1) Bet more on the turn - 2/3 potish, and basically give up the river if called - check/call reasonable or check/fold. I may stand more of a chance of being reraised by a better hand here as it seems like I am more committed to the pot...I would certainly like to know now if I'm beat.

(2) Bet only slightly more on the turn, and lead the river as well, but still fold to the reraise (readless) - I wouldn't save much behind here, but at least I'd be much more confident that I was beat.

(3) Get married to my hand due to stacks, position, lack of likelihood that villain has a better hand, etc. and just bet out on all streets, and resign myself to the fact that, on the probably rare occassion that my opponent has the hand that I'm worried about, that I am stuck paying them off.
This seems to contradict being able to make smart laydowns, etc. - but at the same time, it seems the least 'weak' style of play.

I would love some feedback on this type of thing from some of the advanced players who have gone through adjusting to these types of hands...things like when (against an unknown) you have AA/KK out of position and the flop is 3 suited, you have the high card of the same suit but don't flush on the river and are pushed at...or flop is TTx-KKx - call it rainbow for simplicity...or flop is a straight board and you don't improve beyond 1 pair by the river and are pushed at.
What is the best strategy to (a) find out that you are beat (b) bet for value against a weaker hand that seems to want to call you down (c) both a and b

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this drivel. Oh, and for the curious and patient, I thought for a long time on the hand in this post and gave up on the river, and opponent, being quite proud of her hand, flipped up 99 for flopped quads. So it turned out to be a good fold, but I did not feel that it was at the time - and letting go of the cowboys here was really tough, I think due to my playstyle.

biondino

03-25-2006, 08:48 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

I really appreciate that you're asking these questions - I too will be intrigued to see what responses you get.

(would it be lame of me to say I put her on 99? Yes

)

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River play here, and response to allin overbluff...

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