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Re-Raise with Q/Q

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andmunn

06-22-2007, 02:15 AM Post subject: Re-Raise with Q/Q

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 79

I figured i was ahead...but i hate situations like this..input?

Getting Hand History Information...
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #42332003-5563 at St Joseph (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 21/Jun/07 22:10:52

CutBait777 is at seat 0 with $46.
tattoo4me is at seat 1 with $43.80.
TOMCAT_19 is at seat 2 with $45.30.
HERO is at seat 3 with $55.55.
quadsforme is at seat 4 with $44.
xxerxes13 is at seat 5 with $10.85.
FRKWHITE is at seat 6 with $51.05.
WWPD71 is at seat 7 with $50.
arostivich is at seat 8 with $50.
texpete702 is at seat 9 with $33.90.
The button is at seat 0.

tattoo4me posts the small blind of $.25.
TOMCAT_19 posts the big blind of $.50.

CutBait777: -- --
tattoo4me: -- --
TOMCAT_19: -- --
HERO: Qd Qs
quadsforme: -- --
xxerxes13: -- --
FRKWHITE: -- --
texpete702: -- --

Pre-flop:

HERO raises to $2. quadsforme folds. xxerxes13
folds. FRKWHITE calls. texpete702 folds.
CutBait777 folds. tattoo4me folds. TOMCAT_19 folds.

Flop (board: 4c 3h 5c):

HERO bets $4. FRKWHITE raises to $12. HERO
folds. FRKWHITE is returned $8 (uncalled).

Hand #42332003-5563 Summary:

$.60 is raked from a pot of $12.75.
FRKWHITE wins $12.15.
----------------------------------------------------------------

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Jimmy Mac

06-22-2007, 05:06 AM

#2 (permalink)

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You can't fold QQ there dude!. So many draws and lower pairs are in his range. I don't want to let him see another card either, so I 3bet allin on the flop.

bigspenda73

06-22-2007, 05:14 AM

#3 (permalink)

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yea, like 88/99 would be more of a decision here

BankItDrew

06-22-2007, 08:19 AM

#4 (permalink)

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if u think ur ahead and he has a smaller overpair, call and lead turn. if you think you're ahead and he has more than just 2 outs, raise flop. if u r not sure u are beat or not, either raise to find out or fold.

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gingerwizard

06-22-2007, 09:42 AM

#5 (permalink)

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I havn't got a fold here, not yet. Call and see what the turn brings. I would raise you on the flop with a flush draw here and many would do it even with TP.

If the turn is not a club though do we bet and make him pay for the draw? As villain i'd expect a free card here and if I got one, then the play would have worked. Villain is in an awkward spot if we pot the turn and he has the flush draw.

There are many onther hands he has, but I'm a lot less afraid of the monsters because most villains won't show too much strength early in the hand. Other overpairs you beat are in there, OESDs with are there especially if he calls pf with A-crap.

I play as if i'm against what i feel is the most likely part of his range: The draw or over pair you beat. Call and lead a blank turn.

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jackvance

06-22-2007, 09:58 AM

#6 (permalink)

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You're losing value if you give up so easy imo. I expect to be ahead of his lower pp here.

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bode

06-22-2007, 12:23 PM

#7 (permalink)

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call and lead blank turn is the best play here IMO. Folding to a flop raise here is WAY too weak/tight.

Quote:

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mixchange

06-22-2007, 06:02 PM

#8 (permalink)

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definitely call to extract value from a weaker overpair or pushy (but less likely) flush chaser. He probably thinks you missed with AQ or AK. What did you possibly think opponent had?

This could also be a smart villain with AJc+ it really depends, but we must call and lead the turn.

everyone here is saying lead turn if there isn't a blank, but what do you think is a blank here? Most people are putting villain on a pp, so I don't know what they mean by a blank -- I guess we're still fearful of the draw, but I think it has to be a smart opponent to be playing his draw/overcards this way. I think we pretty much lead the turn regardless.

andmunn

06-25-2007, 03:15 AM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 79

I came apon a simliar hand with J/J - normally i would of folded - but here i pushed, good play?

Hand #42331943-22222 at Bemidji (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 24/Jun/07 23:09:47

FrankieDee is at seat 0 with $119.65.
impulsivo is at seat 1 with $77.25.
chrischaos is at seat 2 with $49.75.
AristoKat is at seat 3 with $14.85.
melodrama is at seat 4 with $51.95.
HERO is at seat 5 with $111.45.
_Maradona_ is at seat 6 with $61.55.
LatinDancer is at seat 7 with $41.15.
FILLMYPOCKET is at seat 8 with $23.50.
TimmyP428 is at seat 9 with $49.10.
The button is at seat 7.

FILLMYPOCKET posts the small blind of $.25.
TimmyP428 posts the big blind of $.50.

FrankieDee: -- --
impulsivo: -- --
chrischaos: -- --
AristoKat: -- --
melodrama: -- --
HERO: Jc Jd
_Maradona_: -- --
LatinDancer: -- --
FILLMYPOCKET: -- --
TimmyP428: -- --

Pre-flop:

FrankieDee folds. impulsivo calls. chrischaos
folds. AristoKat folds. melodrama folds. HERO
raises to $2.50. _Maradona_ folds. LatinDancer
folds. FILLMYPOCKET folds. TimmyP428 calls.
impulsivo calls.

Flop (board: 2h 5h 8c):

TimmyP428 checks. impulsivo checks. HERO bets
$6. TimmyP428 raises to $17. impulsivo folds.
HERO re-raises to $58.75.

BankItDrew

06-25-2007, 06:27 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

everyone here is saying lead turn if there isn't a blank, but what do you think is a blank here? Most people are putting villain on a pp, so I don't know what they mean by a blank.

I think a blank card is any card that doesn't help with drawing hands. My favorite turn cards in these situations are kings and aces that are not clubs. This is because by leading turn with these cards, usually finds folds or raises.... rarely calls.

johnson8000

06-30-2007, 08:57 AM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 8

I think this is marginal decision - i'm too negative and i'd probably fold. This is why, i'm only playing one table atm - if he's UA.. then i'll like to think go all in. One month ago, i wouldn't as i'd put him on AA, K,K. But, that is being too negative.

Its a tough decision, i'm starting to see why tight/aggressive players have alot of success. He's putting some seriousl pressure on you. Hey, you could have A,A urself.

I think this is a 50/50 i don't know the long term EV for this type of play with Q,Q. Thats one toughten. Btw, i like the J,J play.. push, push ahhh.

Going back to the first example - can't u put him on K,K or A,A and respect his play. Its hard to comment, why u have no info on him. Unlikely, he's hit the board, apart from a draw.

bigspenda73

06-30-2007, 02:23 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Learning to read board textures could help in these situations.

Hand 2's board is much easier to fold than hand 1. They both have flush draws but board 1 is more connected giving a few more PF calling hands equity than in hand 2.

The question is, which of these board looks scarier for a villain to be putting money in with:

I would be much more worried if my opponent was betting hard on the SECOND board b/c without the presence of draws a flopped set has to make up a large portion of his range.

johnson8000

06-30-2007, 05:54 PM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 8

I think both boards are quite safe, its jus the psychology of it. Having a 3x reraise and wanting to invest more cash, unaware of your situation. This is where im going to be more aggressive on the flop, with these types of hands.

Hey, but even the best make the mistakes on these boards to re raises -()

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bN8_gO1_Njg"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bN8_gO1_Njg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Ivey folds an all in with K,K with 3,7,6 on the board. I'd find it hard to fold K,K here, though.

No disgrace in folding -)

Muzzard

06-30-2007, 06:03 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnson8000

Ivey folds an all in with K,K with 3,7,6 on the board. I'd find it hard to fold K,K here, though.

No disgrace in folding -)

This is a totally different situation, there has been a 4 bet preflop, Ivey obv has AK/QQ+. Booth on the other hand knows that Ivey can't call AI with any of those hands on this low board, Booth set him up slightly by asking about his stack size or implied odds. There was so much levelling on going on in this hand, but Ivey just couldn't call

The hand in question here is nothing of the kiind, with only 1 raise and a call, then getting reraised on he flop. Neither player has really defined their hand as much as the other hand that you referred to. The reraiser could have a PP less than QQ, a set, some kind of draw or even air thinking that AK/AQ missed...

bigspenda73

06-30-2007, 06:13 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnson8000

I think both boards are quite safe, its jus the psychology of it.

no they are not or else I wouldn't have made the post

Chicago_Kid

07-01-2007, 12:27 AM

#16 (permalink)

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90% of the time see the turn for non-scary card. However, based on read you might need to be ready to lose some chips if he was playing a set aggro.

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