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A rare AA post that doesn't suck (I hope)

  
 
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Fnord
Old 02-13-2006, 07:26 AM     Post subject: A rare AA post that doesn't suck (I hope) #1 (permalink)  
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My opponent is a regular on the site. Muti-tabling, thinking TAgg.

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BB ($30.50)

Preflop: Fnord is SB with A, A.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $5, 5 folds, Fnord raises to $15, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $10.

Flop: ($31) J, 9, K (2 players)
Fnord checks, UTG+1 checks.

Turn: ($31) 6 (2 players)
Fnord bets $15, UTG+1 calls $15.

River: ($61) J (2 players)
Fnord bets $25...


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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ChrisBCritter
Old 02-13-2006, 09:03 AM #2 (permalink)  
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That's an interesting/weak line from the SB. Nice feign of weakness on the flop. Makes the Opp think his AK is good! Interesting that he didn't bet the flop either... maybe he has KQ? Yea, that's more likely. I'm guessing you're betting for value, not trying to chase him out of a non-scary board?
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Fnord
Old 02-13-2006, 09:06 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
maybe he has KQ?
I'm about 95% certain he folds KQ pre-flop as I haven't given him cause to make that call (yet *cackle*.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
Yea, that's more likely. I'm guessing you're betting for value, not trying to chase him out of a non-scary board?
Yup. Bet more? Less? G00t bet size? Too obvious what I'm up to? We don't have much history, so I pretty much just played his range and wasn't thinking N levels kinda stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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ChrisBCritter
Old 02-13-2006, 09:28 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Ok, wasn't sure how much history you had at the table yet (or with opp). So AK is the most likely hand here then? Wait a sec... QQ is also distinctly possible, but man he is playing it weakly... JJ has to bet at some point either on the flop or turn I would think.

I think the bets are just about the right size there. And I highly doubt he can pin you on Rockets. He's gotta have AK on the turn to make that call, and he'll pay you off reasonably on that river.

$25 into a $60 pot is "weak" enough that he might want to play for stacks with his TPTK... Wouldn't be such a bad thing!
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Fnord
Old 02-13-2006, 09:39 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
I think the bets are just about the right size there. And I highly doubt he can pin you on Rockets.
I think he's quite capable of putting me on AA/KK/QQ/AK here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
He's gotta have AK on the turn to make that call, and he'll pay you off reasonably on that river.
QQ wouldn't be making as terrible of a mistake as you might think calling the turn if he thinks I'm good for a bet if he improves, or a free showdown if he's good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
$25 into a $60 pot is "weak" enough that he might want to play for stacks with his TPTK... Wouldn't be such a bad thing!
He doesn't want to play for stacks with a pair. Otherwise, I would have bet out on the flop. If the pot hits $200, I don't think I'm getting the best of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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ChrisBCritter
Old 02-13-2006, 10:04 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I think he's quite capable of putting me on AA/KK/QQ/AK here.
True, with your PF re-raise that should be "obvious" to a new player at the table...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
QQ wouldn't be making as terrible of a mistake as you might think calling the turn if he thinks I'm good for a bet if he improves, or a free showdown if he's good.
No, I can also see QQ calling here many times, then folding the unimproved river...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
He doesn't want to play for stacks with a pair. Otherwise, I would have bet out on the flop. If the pot hits $200, I don't think I'm getting the best of it.
I'm not sure of what you are saying here... Do you want him to raise you on the river or not?? I don't think that QQ would normally make this river call, AK should though...

What's your plan for a re-raise on the river? KK,JJ,99 (however unlikely) are in a great position here... No, I don't put anybody but the worst of players playing these hands like this, but the possiblity exists.

So, in summary, only a couple hands "Might" call your river value bet. AK could raise you here, but so could the three hands that beat you. This hand is anything but standard, and is a very dangerous way to try and extract value from AA...IMHO
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Irisheyes
Old 02-13-2006, 05:10 PM #7 (permalink)  
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He either has KK, or AK. Slightly possible 99.

I think AK is more likely to have made a raise somewhere during the course of the hand.
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Fnord
Old 02-13-2006, 05:29 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I think AK is more likely to have made a raise somewhere during the course of the hand.
How would you expect a thinking player to play AK here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Renton
Old 02-13-2006, 05:35 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 His check behind you on the flop would be a wonderful way to play a set of kings...
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Fnord
Old 02-13-2006, 05:39 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
His check behind you on the flop would be a wonderful way to play a set of kings...
Not really. I thought KK was a very likely holding and wanted to make it difficult for him to get it all-in if he sucked out on me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Irisheyes
Old 02-13-2006, 05:54 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I think AK is more likely to have made a raise somewhere during the course of the hand.
How would you expect a thinking player to play AK here?
bet flop. Look for cheap showdown. Fold to loads of action because if Fnord has QQ he's not going to bet the house on it.

Or actually if he was a really thinking played he could play it like he had KK. Hmm..
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Fnord
Old 02-13-2006, 06:03 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord

How would you expect a thinking player to play AK here?
bet flop. Look for cheap showdown. Fold to loads of action because if Fnord has QQ he's not going to bet the house on it.
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BB ($30.50)

Preflop: TAgg is UTG+1 with A, K.
1 fold, UTG+1 (TAgg) raises to $5, 5 folds, SB (tricky TAggy) raises to $15, 1 fold, UTG+1 (TAgg) calls $10.

Flop: ($31) J, 9, K (2 players)
tricky TAggy checks, TAgg ???

What's your play here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Renton
Old 02-13-2006, 06:20 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
His check behind you on the flop would be a wonderful way to play a set of kings...
Not really. I thought KK was a very likely holding and wanted to make it difficult for him to get it all-in if he sucked out on me.
So you'd fold if he came over the top of your river bet?
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Fnord
Old 02-13-2006, 06:22 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
So you'd fold if he came over the top of your river bet?
...and cry really loud (online poker is good like that.)

Yeah, my line should freeze him up pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Irisheyes
Old 02-13-2006, 06:42 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Ok, keep in mind this isn't a situation I'm in often but anyway..

Preflop:
You may be tricky but you're still TAGG so when you raise its not J3s. I make you're range AA-JJ, AK. No AQ because thats a standard beginners move and you don't make mistakes like that.

Flop:
As far as I'm concerned, Fnords AK just made a pair, AA is overpair, KK is huge and JJ are huge. You're QQ is nervous because his AK beats you now.

Fnord checks- the way I see this you either have nothing or a monster. I know I don't want to get check raised.

I think if I bet, You make my range heavier to the AK, QQ side of things. Its a hand defining bet. If you even call my bet I know I'm done.

Also I know its a WA/WB situation for me so I'm not all that afraid of free cards.

I guess a check isn't all that bad a play after all.
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Fnord
Old 02-13-2006, 06:47 PM #16 (permalink)  
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TAgg's hand on the flop:

AK - 6 ways
KK - 3 ways
QQ - 6 ways
JJ - 3 ways

(unless my math is off...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
I make you're range AA-JJ, AK.
You forgot 74o...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
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Irisheyes
Old 02-13-2006, 06:50 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Ya so as long as you don't get raised its a winner. Will AK call the river though? By this stage he knows you don't have QQ.
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Fnord
Old 02-14-2006, 04:53 AM #18 (permalink)  
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He folded to the river bet, said he had AK. I'm skeptical, QQ fits here too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Irisheyes
Old 02-14-2006, 05:12 AM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
I'm skeptical, QQ fits here too.
dunno about that. Meh.. I'm obviously weak tight
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bdawg56kg
Old 02-14-2006, 05:42 AM #20 (permalink)  
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I like it. I don't know why everyone is saying that he can't have AK, as it makes perfect sense here. I might take a little different line though, depending on the situation. I like betting the flop, just for the sake of betting since you showed strength preflop. $20 is good. I don't think there's any way AK folds to this bet, otherwise why even call the preflop reraise? If he calls, which he probably will with AK, then I like checking the turn since a strong bet will fold AK if villian is solid. Then on the river you can bet 3/4 pot or maybe even throw out a slight overbet to rep a desperate QQ.

You could also check both the flop and turn, since you probably don't want to play a huge pot OOP against a solid villian on this board. If he bets the turn, I would call and lead the river for 3/4 pot. Don't need to worry about free cards and getting outdrawn here. The point of this line is to disguise the strength of your hand to lead you to winning a nice medium sized pot.

Fnord, what do you think about calling the $5 preflop? What is your range for reraising out of the SB?
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