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Questionable play on the turn

  
 
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ngericl
Old 06-15-2005, 05:58 AM     Post subject: Questionable play on the turn #1 (permalink)  
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On the flop, I should've re-raised him all-in instead of calling. Having not done that, should I've folded on the turn? Or am i commited to this hand to the end? Not much of a read on the guy.

Stage #140093603: Holdem No Limit $0.05 [ 2005-06-15 01:13:32 ]
Seat 1 - KK_KILLUH $10 in chips
Seat 2 - XSHENX $5.05 in chips
Seat 3 - SPARTANII7 $3.40 in chips
Seat 4 - NGERICL $8.45 in chips
Seat 5 - DD $3.95 in chips
Seat 6 - STOCKICE $4.45 in chips
Seat 7 - HOWDY97 $3.30 in chips
Seat 8 - BEARLYALIVE $35.07 in chips
Seat 9 - IRONRIDER $4.20 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 8] ***
IRONRIDER - Post small blind $0.05
KK_KILLUH - Post big blind $0.10
NGERICL - Pocket [10h,10c]
XSHENX - Calls $0.10
SPARTANII7 - Calls $0.10
NGERICL - Raises $0.10 to $0.40
DD - Folds
STOCKICE - Folds
HOWDY97 - Calls $0.40
BEARLYALIVE - Folds
IRONRIDER - Folds
KK_KILLUH - Folds
XSHENX - Folds
SPARTANII7 - Calls $0.30
*** FLOP [2c,7s,Jh] ***
SPARTANII7 - Checks
NGERICL - Bets $1
HOWDY97 - Folds
SPARTANII7 - Raises $1 to $2
NGERICL - Calls $1
*** TURN [2c,7s,Jh,5h] ***
SPARTANII7 - All-In $1
NGERICL - Calls $1
*** RIVER [2c,7s,Jh,5h,10d] ***
Results in white.
SPARTANII7 - Show cards [2h,2d]
NGERICL - Show cards [10h,10c]
*** RESULT ***
Total Pot($7.45) Rake ($0.35)
Board [2c,7s,Jh,5h,10d]
SPARTANII7 - HI:Three of a kind, twos [2h,2d -
P:2h,P:2d,B:2c,B:Jh,B:10d]
NGERICL - Total ($7.10) HI$7.10)Three of a kind, tens [10h,10c -
P:10h,B:10d,P:10c,B:Jh,B:7s]
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spino1i
Old 06-15-2005, 06:39 AM #2 (permalink)  
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had you reraised him all in on the flop, you would have had the same end result, because he got his set of 2s on the flop. I'd say the questionable play is not on the turn but on the flop..

I would have folded on the flop, since at the least he is rep'ing top pair (a pair of jacks) which beats your pocket tens.

You're drawing to a 2-outer (the two tens in the deck are the only way you beat top pair or a set) the whole time, not a good thing to be drawing to, and it appears that you hit at the end and bad beat him lol. Its defintely not worth calling much less raising on a two-outer even from the flop, so a fold on the flop is your best option.
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bair
Old 06-15-2005, 12:16 PM #3 (permalink)  
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should have folded when he raised you, if not then then on the turn.
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Rondavu
Old 06-15-2005, 01:18 PM #4 (permalink)  
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The only reason a guy would raise you on that flop is if he's ahead. The only reason a guy would check raise you on that flop is if he felt he was WAY ahead. I don't blame you for continuing, but what you have to understand is that by check raising you on that flop out of position, he did you a huge favor. He let you know he has better than one pair. You gotta fold that all day long. Congratulations on winning, but generally you played it badly.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-15-2005, 01:38 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Fold or push the flop. Second pair is not a hand to go AI with.

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Precisely.
 
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DimitriT
Old 06-15-2005, 01:50 PM #6 (permalink)  
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That's a hand I will limp in with out of position. You already have two guys behind you limping in which probably can beat your pair at some point. You really should be going for set value here unless you have been folded to and are on the button or one back.

I would have bet out on the flop but folded on the raise if I was was heads up. I would have checked on the flop with two or more hands in.
The guy with the 2s may then try to slow play you and you may still get a look at the gold on the river.
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ngericl
Old 06-15-2005, 05:48 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Ugh. Generally bad play on my part. Textbook case of getting married to a hand.
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EricE
Old 06-15-2005, 06:40 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
The only reason a guy would raise you on that flop is if he's ahead. The only reason a guy would check raise you on that flop is if he felt he was WAY ahead. I don't blame you for continuing, but what you have to understand is that by check raising you on that flop out of position, he did you a huge favor. He let you know he has better than one pair. You gotta fold that all day long. Congratulations on winning, but generally you played it badly.
I don't understand a check raise in general. Why would someone check raise? Maybe to simulate a weaker hand? Maybe he didn’t want to commit more $ but “by god I won’t fold”? Hehe. Can someone please tell me what is going on in your head when you have used check raise in the past?
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DimitriT
Old 06-15-2005, 06:46 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Checkraise:

1. to get more into the pot than you would by just raising
this can happen if you check (showing weakness) and your opponent
bets - you then can raise him rather than call (and have to see more cards)

2. its sometimes used to bluff
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drmcboy
Old 06-15-2005, 06:55 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 I don't check raise much, I play aggresive so I need to bet when I make a hand. But CR certainly works against me! It's a play I think is best used when you have a vunerable hand that is probably best right now, and you generally only bet when you have something. So:

Tight player X calls my raise from the BB with AQ. Flop is Q56 two suited. If he bets, I'm only going to call or play back with a hand that beats his, because I know he's tight, and he knows I know. But if he checks, aggresive me will probably bet with anything, so he lets me bet, then raises, getting the extra bet from me in the process. It's an even better play if a bet is going to pot commit the guy.

It's also a good play if the flop is too good to bet out on... flop comes AA5r - most people with an A would check here and look to punish someone who tried to steal the pot. A CR here folds out anyone without an A.
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EricE
Old 06-15-2005, 07:01 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriT
Checkraise:

1. to get more into the pot than you would by just raising
this can happen if you check (showing weakness) and your opponent
bets - you then can raise him rather than call (and have to see more cards)

2. its sometimes used to bluff
Oh I see. If he bet $2 there NGERICL might have folded leaving him with $1 less than if he had checked then caused NGERICL to fold after the raise.
Sweet deal. Thanks for explaining.
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Zangief
Old 06-15-2005, 07:16 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricE
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriT
Checkraise:

1. to get more into the pot than you would by just raising
this can happen if you check (showing weakness) and your opponent
bets - you then can raise him rather than call (and have to see more cards)

2. its sometimes used to bluff
Oh I see. If he bet $2 there NGERICL might have folded leaving him with $1 less than if he had checked then caused NGERICL to fold after the raise.
Sweet deal. Thanks for explaining.
But the drawback is that you might allow your opponent to see the next card for free when he is drawing. This can backfire big-time. I like it a lot when I call a pre-flop raise with suited connectors in late position, flop a draw, and my opponent checks to me with the intention of raising. This can also be good with AK.
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