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fakedecoy
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07-08-2010, 09:22 PM
Post subject: QQ vs 3bet
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 50
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Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP1 ($65.70)
Hero (MP2) ($47.50)
CO ($113.70)
Button ($35.60)
SB ($20)
BB ($17.50)
UTG ($27.60)
UTG+1 ($20)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q , Q
3 folds, Hero bets $3, CO raises to $10.50, 3 folds, Hero calls $7.50
Flop: ($22.50) 6 , 5 , 5 (2 players)
Hero?
CO is 16/9 and hasn't made any obvious mistakes over 2k hands. I'd put him on AA or KK preflop, but I felt funny folding with QQ. I've read here that you should never fold QQ preflop, but I don't understand why I shouldn't fold if I put him on KK or AA and I'm not getting at least 1:10 implied odds to hit a Q.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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you only have 47BB and this is a spot where he should be 3b bluffing/ 3betting with AK. Shove preflop as played c/shove...
If you really put him on exactly KK+ then fold. This seems somewhat unlikely however unless you are the nittiest of all nits, which seems completely possible given this OP.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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with your stack 4bet shove
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,814
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what's with playing 50bb and now knowing how to play 50bb?
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ljove
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 80
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Calling his 3bet preflop is week.You should push all in preflop.You know he got AA KK AK or maybe something like AQ,AJ,JJ or low pocket pair
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers
you only have 47BB and this is a spot where he should be 3b bluffing/ 3betting with AK. Shove preflop as played c/shove...
If you really put him on exactly KK+ then fold. This seems somewhat unlikely however unless you are the nittiest of all nits, which seems completely possible given this OP.
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I lol'd.
Agree with hand advice given here as well.
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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What's his 3bet %? It's correct to 4bet for value with 100BB stacks if villian's 3bet is >= 3%. Since you have 47BBs, you should be snap shoving this unless his 3 bet is below about 1.5% (rough estimate).
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fakedecoy
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
what's with playing 50bb and now knowing how to play 50bb?
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Can you rephrase your question? What adjustments should I make for shallow tables?
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,526
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The shallower your stack, the more willing you should be to stack off with a weaker holding.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,526
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Weaker being, TPTK, overpairs and whatnot.
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Illfavor
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 1,153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBobAA
It's correct to 4bet for value with 100BB stacks if villian's 3bet is >= 3%.
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Could you explain this a little better? This is a really generic statement that assumes we know a lot, and doesn't really make much sense to me. Are you saying that it's fine to 4b 100bb deep in thise specific spot?...or with QQ in general? I mean we have no info on dynamic or the villains continuing range so it seems like this statement cannot be correct, but I may just be looking at it incorrectly.
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illfavor
Could you explain this a little better? This is a really generic statement that assumes we know a lot, and doesn't really make much sense to me. Are you saying that it's fine to 4b 100bb deep in thise specific spot?...or with QQ in general? I mean we have no info on dynamic or the villains continuing range so it seems like this statement cannot be correct, but I may just be looking at it incorrectly.
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I'm saying that with QQ, it's +EV to 4bet/call 100BBs deep vs a villian that has a 3-bet range >= 3%. I'm not sure if you have hold'em manager, but there's a whole article included in the program about all the math behind it.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,526
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We're 50bb deep, we should be willing to 4bet jam this vs most villains.
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dranger7070
We're 50bb deep, we should be willing to 4bet jam this vs most villains.
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Yeah I'm saying that if it's correct to 4bet/call with QQ 100BBs deep vs a 3% range, then it's a insta snap shove 50BBs deep vs almost anyone.
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