|
Dashi
|
08-30-2007, 08:34 AM
Post subject: QQ pre-flop
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 46
|
|
I was in hyper-aggro mode since arriving at the table and had shown down a couple crappy hands that I played very aggressively pre-flop, that turned into monsters post-flop. Couple people on the table were complaining that I wouldn't let them play poker. I then decided to take a conservative break for 40 or so hands and let my image shift a bit. 25 or so hands into this I pick up QQ
Reads were UTG+1 27/9/1 and MP1 31/13/1
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
BB ($24.65)
UTG ($24.95)
UTG+1 ($29.50)
MP1 ($29.65)
MP2 ($35.15)
Hero ($65.55)
Button ($25)
SB ($34.40)
Preflop: Hero is CO with  ,  .
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.85, MP1 calls $0.85, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.5, 3 folds, UTG+1 raises to $11.35, MP1 raises to $30.5 (All-In) Hero ??
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
NLHE lahooozaher
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
|
|
fold, i don't think this is close at all either.
|
|
|
|
ChrisBCritter
|
|
08-30-2007, 12:11 PM
Post subject: Re: QQ pre-flop
|
#3 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dashi
Couple people on the table were complaining that I wouldn't let them play poker.
|
ROFLMMFAO!
As for the hand, Push over...MP1 has 88+, AK, AQ here a lot, and UTG is TT+, AK also, which is a range that I like for pushing over when you have them both covered. This has great showdown value, and will help to allow you to fall back into your Hyper-aggressive mode relatively unchallenged...Obviously you are getting under their skins by doing this!
|
|
Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
|
|
Seasider
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bangor UK
Posts: 563
|
|
My experience of Full Tilt full ring would be that this is a fold without reads.
|
|
|
|
bode
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
|
|
fold vs unknowns.
|
Quote:
|
eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
|
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
08-30-2007, 08:31 PM
Post subject: Re: QQ pre-flop
|
#6 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
FOLD
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
As for the hand, Push over...MP1 has 88+, AK, AQ here a lot, and UTG is TT+, AK also, which is a range that I like for pushing over when you have them both covered.
|
Your ranges are too wide. Why the F would someone shove 88 here?
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
|
Dashi
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 46
|
|
I did in fact push, UTG+1 had KK and MP1 had AA
Looking back I agree 100% with a fold. AA KK and AK are the most likely holding here and to think NEITHER of them had any of those 3 is rather foolish.
Same problem though, but remove UTG+1 from the hand, would that change it into a call?
|
|
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dashi
Same problem though, but remove UTG+1 from the hand, would that change it into a call?
|
depends. if villain just pushed over a standard raise i'd be more inclined to call.
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
raise, cold-caller, hero RR, opener RRes (hmmm), cold-caller shoves (dbl hmmmm)......FOLD!!!
the cold caller has something BIG. he basically limp-RRed trying to slowplay something pf. i wonder what that could be...hmmmm?
way too much action for them to be trying to "pick YOU off." at least one of them has something...as you found.
since when was it worth donating more than a full BI to build/keep image? to me, thats just spew.
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
i dont think this is an insta fold. beyond that, what do we know about them.
Looking at the stats they arent that good so id expect AA rather than AK or some mid pair here but im not sure.
|
|
|
|
ChrisBCritter
|
|
08-31-2007, 01:56 PM
Post subject: Re: QQ pre-flop
|
#11 (permalink)
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Your ranges are too wide. Why the F would someone shove 88 here?
|
I guess I've been just playing at 10NL for too long. MP1 is definitely REPRESENTING something strong, but i've been playing with so many donks lately at the low limits that will pull this move with K9o (with even FOUR people in the pot mind you) that I can't just automatically give him credit for AA. For me (and maybe this is just my risk tolerance speaking) I still push over here and sometimes expect to see AA or KK and sometimes expect to see total garbage... I've also seen plenty of times both opps having AK!! An insta-fold at 100NL? probably...but I'm going to stand by my range for MP1 at low limits without more of a read than 31/13...
|
|
Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
this isnt as straight forward as everyone makes out.
|
|
|
|
Pelion
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
|
|
Maybe if it was headsup against one of them they might be taking a stand with something like 88 but as its 3 way they both have to be afraid of the other person in the pot. That means they have to have something pretty big. You have hardly put anything in the pot so far so you are pretty much calling 30 to win 55. Youll need a bit less than 35% equity. Giving both of them a reasonably loose range here of JJ+, AK leaves you with 33%. Its pretty likely that at least one of them is going to be pushing significantly tighter than that with an extra player in the pot. If just one of their ranges is QQ+ then you are screwed down to 20% equity and have to fold. I dont think that is unlikely in a 3 way pot.
|
|
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
08-31-2007, 07:50 PM
Post subject: Re: QQ pre-flop
|
#14 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Your ranges are too wide. Why the F would someone shove 88 here?
|
I guess I've been just playing at 10NL for too long. MP1 is definitely REPRESENTING something strong, but i've been playing with so many donks lately at the low limits that will pull this move with K9o (with even FOUR people in the pot mind you) that I can't just automatically give him credit for AA. For me (and maybe this is just my risk tolerance speaking) I still push over here and sometimes expect to see AA or KK and sometimes expect to see total garbage... I've also seen plenty of times both opps having AK!! An insta-fold at 100NL? probably...but I'm going to stand by my range for MP1 at low limits without more of a read than 31/13... |
I think the donks that do this with garbage are just sticking out in your mind more. The vast majority of the time they aren't doing this with garbage.
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
|
Dashi
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 46
|
|
Same situation happened today played out almost identical except that UTG just called my 3bet and the cold caller shoved. THIS time I fold and UTG calls. UTG AK cold caller AA.
Thanks for the advice.
|
|
|
|
Chopper
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dashi
Same situation happened today played out almost identical except that UTG just called my 3bet and the cold caller shoved. THIS time I fold and UTG calls. UTG AK cold caller AA.
Thanks for the advice.
|
looks like another stack saved by the crew at FTR. good fold.
btw, you didnt have KK, did you?
|
|
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
|
|
daven
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,814
|
|
Fold! You're almost always up against either aa or kk, not often both though. Best, best case scenario you are up against AK and JJ, but I think this is unlikely. Reading the rest of the thread, cool that you applied the advice and it paid off!!! nice one.
|
|
|
|
Dashi
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 46
|
|
no KK i'll push every time, I had QQ
|
|
|
|
Deanglow
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
|
|
This ain't jacks. fold.
|
|
|
|
Khabbi
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 381
|
|
QQ is a clear fold. I also fold KK here. When unknowns at 10NL 4-bet pre-flop in a 3-way pot they have AA.
|
|
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Khabbi
QQ is a clear fold. I also fold KK here. When unknowns at 10NL 4-bet pre-flop in a 3-way pot they have AA.
|
i know it's controversial but QFT. if one believes that this is not JJ here (as in this is QQ+) then you are 50/50 vs. villain's range if you hold KK, and AA is more likely to play this way than QQ. i don't like flipping coins for full stacks.
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
|
Deanglow
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Khabbi
QQ is a clear fold. I also fold KK here. When unknowns at 10NL 4-bet pre-flop in a 3-way pot they have AA.
|
i know it's controversial but QFT. if one believes that this is not JJ here (as in this is QQ+) then you are 50/50 vs. villain's range if you hold KK, and AA is more likely to play this way than QQ. i don't like flipping coins for full stacks. |
I don't think you can fold KK pre-flop at this level, like, ever.
|
|
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Khabbi
QQ is a clear fold. I also fold KK here. When unknowns at 10NL 4-bet pre-flop in a 3-way pot they have AA.
|
i know it's controversial but QFT. if one believes that this is not JJ here (as in this is QQ+) then you are 50/50 vs. villain's range if you hold KK, and AA is more likely to play this way than QQ. i don't like flipping coins for full stacks. |
I don't think you can fold KK pre-flop at this level, like, ever. |
If you have narrowed down villain's range to one that makes QQ a clear fold then I don't see how KK can be a clear call. You are 50% vs. that range (QQ+) and AA is much more likely to be 4betting all-in preflop than QQ.
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,992
|
|
ur calling range here is AA
|
|
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Renton
ur calling range here is AA
|
yay someone else who agrees 
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
06-01-2012, 11:03 AM White House Responds to Poker Players Alliance's Petition
Linear Mode
