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QQ and a lot of dead money

  
 
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XTR1000
Old 03-03-2010, 02:23 PM     Post subject: QQ and a lot of dead money #1 (permalink)  
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- UTG is 10/7/7.4 3bet over a tiny 135 hands sample
- MP is not much different 14/11/ 8% 3b over 150
- SB 20/10
- I´m 16/14ish, depending on which table people are sharing with me

$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem
9 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($50)
Hero ($51.50)
MP1 ($49.40)
MP2 ($50)
MP3 ($65.65)
CO ($54.50)
BTN ($53.50)
SB ($100.60)
BB ($50.75)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75, 9 players) Hero is UTG+1
UTG raises to $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, 2 folds, MP3 raises to $4.25, 2 folds, SB calls $4, 1 fold, UTG calls $2.75, Hero ?
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daven
Old 03-03-2010, 06:40 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 once the sb cold calls and utg calls along i really hate doing anything other than hoping for a queen high flop. 10-7 is gonna be pretty tight utg...
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

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caddie444
Old 03-03-2010, 10:52 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Shoving seems to be break even vs an MP3 calling range of AK, AA, KK due to the dead money. If MP3 can 3Bet JJ here its a pretty easy shove IMO. I mean I doubt UTG or SB are ever flatting anything that beats you here. In game I prob call and play a flop. Folding is meh cause Q high flop likely get lots of action.


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MasonGamble
Old 03-04-2010, 01:22 PM #4 (permalink)  
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^agreed... giving what you have said, worth the call for the flop... Just posted not too long ago in BC about playing JJ and feel pretty much the same way about QQ, you have a 50% chance of hitting low cards on the flop and a 50% of broadways. Since you hold two broadways in your hand and assuming SB and UTG are not betting with rags they probably have a couple aswell. putting the range somewhere like AQ+, AA, KK, which gives you a HUGE adventage if you do hit on the flop cause it's going to play well.
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badgers
Old 03-04-2010, 06:04 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caddie444 View Post
I mean I doubt UTG or SB are ever flatting anything that beats you here.
SB can easily have us beat and UTG could have KK scared with all this ridic action. I think this is a call to pretty much setmine.
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badgers
Old 03-04-2010, 06:06 PM #6 (permalink)  
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also I kinda dislike putting 3bet stat in the OP, even though you said it was over a tiny sample. The sample size is completely useless for determining something like 3bet % and I think you should barely be thinking about it unless they have stats way above normal.
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caddie444
Old 03-09-2010, 09:58 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badgers View Post
SB can easily have us beat and UTG could have KK scared with all this ridic action. I think this is a call to pretty much setmine.
Well I mean sure its possible I just think that the ranges of SB and UTG should be weighted heavily towards hands that we beat. I hardly ever see anyone flat KK or AA here from either position b/c of the action... if anything they go insane and shove.


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Micro2Macro
Old 03-10-2010, 05:05 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 sb flatting is super strong here

DONT SHOVE
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caddie444
Old 03-10-2010, 06:41 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
sb flatting is super strong here

DONT SHOVE
- SB 20/10

So I guess we're putting him squarely on KK? Is it common for ppl to flat AA in the sb facing this action?

My initial thought was that sb's range is huge weighted to like JJ and QQ... I have yet to see someone not 4B KK or AA from the sb facing similar action.


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rpm
Old 03-10-2010, 10:45 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 between the SB and UTG i'd say at least one has KK+ , i mean UTG was getting a decent price but i seriously doubt he's opening too wide in the first place. i think you have to smooth and consider yourself a setminer.
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Micro2Macro
Old 03-10-2010, 08:54 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 OMMMMMMMMMMMFFFFFFFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

His stats are not what you should base your decision off of.

UTG raises: strength
Hero calls UTG's open from UTG1: often strength
MP3 3bets UTG+UTG1: STRENGTH
SB decides to flat MP3's strong 3bet OOP with UTG and UTG1 still left to act!: MASSIVE STRENGTH

Are you value shoving QQ here now?
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caddie444
Old 03-11-2010, 06:13 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post

SB decides to flat MP3's strong 3bet OOP with UTG and UTG1 still left to act!: MASSIVE STRENGTH OR MASSIVE DONK

Are you value shoving QQ here now?
I've seen ppl flat AQ from sb in similar spots (@ 25NL anyways)...

With regards to UTG I don't know I just don't ever see someone flatting AA here ever with this action. KK is also a possibility but obv it would be the top of his calling a 3B range. You don't think he flats the 3B with 10-10 to QQ here? I mean he never expects you to 4B.

I'm not saying nor did I ever say I would shove, I'm just saying I am a lot more worried about MP3 having us beat than anyone else, which is why I said I would likely just call and see a flop.


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Micro2Macro
Old 03-11-2010, 07:03 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 def call

even if sb is flatting with AQ, he probably won't get it all in pre.

and yeah mp3 having a really strong range here isn't good for us if we jam, and there is still a chance utg is trapping us.
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Sprayed
Old 03-12-2010, 10:52 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven View Post
once the sb cold calls and utg calls along i really hate doing anything other than hoping for a queen high flop. 10-7 is gonna be pretty tight utg...
+1
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