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QQ. fold to a 4bet? a lot of dead money in pot

  
 
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pokerroomace
Old 03-21-2007, 11:14 PM     Post subject: QQ. fold to a 4bet? a lot of dead money in pot #1 (permalink)  
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Andreev is quite new to the table. Haven't really seen him do anything.
golftunerp is a fish

Texas Hold'em $0.50-$0.50 NL (Real Money)


Seat 1: Mr.Biatz ($32.60 in chips)
Seat 2: madras17 ($10.50 in chips)
Seat 5: Andreev1 ($46.45 in chips)
Seat 6: golftunerp ($23.70 in chips)
Seat 9: Hero ($82.45 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
golftunerp posts blind ($0.25), Hero posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
Mr.Biatz folds, madras17 folds, Andreev1 bets $2, golftunerp calls $1.75, Hero bets $6.50, Andreev1 bets $25, golftunerp calls $21.70 and is all-in, Hero bets $50, Andreev1 calls $19.45 and is all-in.

FLOP [board cards 2D,JH,2S ]


TURN [board cards 2D,JH,2S,3H ]


RIVER [board cards 2D,JH,2S,3H,KC ]


SHOWDOWN
Hero shows [ QS,QH ]
Andreev1 shows [ AS,AD ]
golftunerp shows [ KH,10S ]
Hero wins $10.55, Andreev1 wins $45.50, Andreev1 wins $68.10.



SUMMARY
Dealer: Andreev1
Pot: $127.15, (including rake: $3)
Mr.Biatz, loses $0
madras17, loses $0
Andreev1, bets $46.45, collects $113.60, net $67.15
golftunerp, loses $23.70
Hero, bets $57, collects $10.55, net -$46.45
------------------------------
i usually fold QQ here to the 4bet. but i thought this time I would call because of what i felt was golftunerp putting in a lot of dead money. i was hoping Andreev1 had AK/JJ/TT and i thought that even against AA and KK i'm only a 4 to 1 dog.

there's $115 in the pot and i need to put in $39 more. i need 33% chance of winning to call.
i felt that golftunerp barely decreased my chances of winning the hand. and there was a chance of me being more than a 50% favourite of winning the hand (if he had AK or JJ). and at worst i had a 20% chance of winning the hand.

what do you think? bad allin?
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jayknabl
Old 03-21-2007, 11:22 PM #2 (permalink)  

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I would have played it the same up against a fish and a new guy.

Not much you can do about this one.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 03-21-2007, 11:54 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 [Mr.Biatz folds, madras17 folds, Andreev1 bets $2, golftunerp calls $1.75, Hero bets $6.50, Andreev1 bets $25, golftunerp calls $21.70 and is all-in]

This is not equal to $119. Actually, it is equal to ~$55. You would need to be calling ~$15 to make it profitable, ~$20 would be okay if the stacks were deep and you knew villain would stack off with his big pairs.

You also say you are only a 4:1 dog against K-K/A-A. These hands comprise at least half of almost any players 4 bet range. There isn't nearly enough money in the pot to justify playing Q-Q, even with goldtunerp's money sitting in the middle.
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pokerroomace
Old 03-22-2007, 11:15 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
[Mr.Biatz folds, madras17 folds, Andreev1 bets $2, golftunerp calls $1.75, Hero bets $6.50, Andreev1 bets $25, golftunerp calls $21.70 and is all-in]

This is not equal to $119. Actually, it is equal to ~$55. You would need to be calling ~$15 to make it profitable, ~$20 would be okay if the stacks were deep and you knew villain would stack off with his big pairs.

You also say you are only a 4:1 dog against K-K/A-A. These hands comprise at least half of almost any players 4 bet range. There isn't nearly enough money in the pot to justify playing Q-Q, even with goldtunerp's money sitting in the middle.
how is it not equal to $119? if i win the hand i will have a stack of 119. to get that stack i need to put in $39. therefore. i'm getting 2 to 1 odds. is this wrong? i think i added it up correctly.
also, i'm pushing pf and assuming he always calls. i can't call and then fold on a flop

i think i did play it badly and the reason why i stacked off is because i didn't realize he was so deep. i saw his stack of 27 left and thought he was short. but he had already put most of his cash in the pot!
but is it really such a bad call? half his range may be AA and KK. but does the other half of his range and the good odds make it a call?
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 03-23-2007, 12:35 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 IF you were to call both players all in, the pot might build to $119 (I probably misread the HH since you are saying that with a call of $35 PF it would bring the pot to the amount you said it would).

The reason i don't like it is because for the call to be even close (4:1 against A-A/K-K), there would need to already be $119 in the pot. This why a fold is better than calling.

Also, i bet that a player would 4-bet with A-A/K-K preflop significantly more than the 50% i said (idk WHY i said that lol)
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