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Da GOAT
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11-26-2006, 08:20 PM
Post subject: QQ against massive push on flop
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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reads pp would bet in position with little, even RR and call 4 gutshot but never did this.
EDIT: he limp/called PF many times with poor cards
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG+1 ($9.65)
MP1 ($4.35)
MP2 ($48.25)
Hero ($46.85)
Button ($47.10)
SB ($28)
BB ($24.90)
UTG ($25.85)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , Q .
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $1.75.
Flop: ($4.60) 4, 6 , 7 (2 players)
MP2 bets $46.25 (All-In), Hero calls $44.85 (All-In).
Turn: ($95.70) 8 (2 players, 2 all-in)
River: ($95.70) K (2 players, 2 all-in)
Final Pot: $95.70
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Bleh...really read dependent. Sometimes call, sometimes fold. It's either a donkey with the nuts/set/2-pair/AA/KK, or not much.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Bleh...really read dependent. Sometimes call, sometimes fold. It's either a donkey with the nuts/set/2-pair/AA/KK, or not much.
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hmm yeah. from SNGs i figure him to have f'all. trips usually slowplay (actually i think i had a note thats what he does with them) so i put him on nothing much.
guy called same PF situation before with J9s betting a gutshot. but since he had never used the line before or could figure ive a PP since ive raised a good bit at the table.
ah well he had 76o. bit annoyed at myself for INSTACALLing and not thinking about it. i probably would of called anyway(based on reads) i guess TBH but should of at least gave it a sec.
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Is one pair worth 200xBB? The answer is rarely.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
from SNGs i figure him to have f'all.
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Be wary about translating anyone's SNG play to their cash play.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da GOAT
from SNGs i figure him to have f'all.
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Be wary about translating anyone's SNG play to their cash play. |
QFT. In cash games there is no need to make massive all in bluffs like this to pick up chips. You're beat here about 90% of the time IMO. The only non-bluff hands you beat that *might* do this are pps 99-JJ.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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ive slept on it. I should of folded 
Im guessing that if there was some math to it then im probably not ahead often enough for this to be profitable (given this exact situation).
Balls, at least ive learned it early tho.
gotta read up and study (just telling myself)
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,042
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Even if you are ahead it isn't by much. Stacks are too deep here.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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yeah you shouldnt have revealed results so soon, but i would definitely say fold without seeing them. Youre never going to be in a dominating situation here unless he is really really horrible; the worst youll see is a pair +oesd where youre a tiny favorite. Otherwise youre smoked.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Hey Goat you playing cash now? Me too, am 3 tabling the baby 0.2/0.5c tables. Gotta say I'm enjoying it more than SNG's now, I like to play after the flop and lag it up a bit.
My advice is from Sklanksy - big bets with big hands. An overpair is a good but not great hand.
If I can hijack slightly - I find the tables very tight pf, even small raises are often folded around. So I'm raising more in late position but tending to limp my big hands and so far it's working. Do you guys think this is a good adaptation to the table or should I still raise big hands and hope someone else has a hand to play against me? I can't tell what will make more long term.
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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LOL at notation "0.2/0.5c"
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
Hey Goat you playing cash now? Me too, am 3 tabling the baby 0.2/0.5c tables. Gotta say I'm enjoying it more than SNG's now, I like to play after the flop and lag it up a bit.
My advice is from Sklanksy - big bets with big hands. An overpair is a good but not great hand.
If I can hijack slightly - I find the tables very tight pf, even small raises are often folded around. So I'm raising more in late position but tending to limp my big hands and so far it's working. Do you guys think this is a good adaptation to the table or should I still raise big hands and hope someone else has a hand to play against me? I can't tell what will make more long term.
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i 2 table, went with 3 but lost focus. ill play 2 till i adapt properly to FR
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Quote:
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LOL at notation "0.2/0.5c"
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 What do you call them then?
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Unless the small blind really is one fifth of a penny, then your notation is wrong 
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
Quote:
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LOL at notation "0.2/0.5c"
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What do you call them then? |
the same if the blinds are really 1/5 and 1/2 of a cent
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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oh yeah.... hmmmm err anyway! So like I say I'm playing the 2/5c tables...
*gets coat*
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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thats not like you said at all...2c/5c= $.02/.05
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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yeah I was playing the fool, guess it didn't come across. Thanks for the correction anyway
$.02/.05
$.02/.05
$.02/.05
I'm suprised how tight so many people are at these limits, is it the same at 25nl?
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
yeah I was playing the fool, guess it didn't come across. Thanks for the correction anyway
$.02/.05
$.02/.05
$.02/.05
I'm suprised how tight so many people are at these limits, is it the same at 25nl? |
i cant imagine they are, mmust be small sample. 25 NL is full pretty full with donks with occasional good player
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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I'm seeing quite a lot of multi-tablers  The donks seem to buy in small so they are not as appealing a target as the big stacks, although I'll happily stack them of course Anyway I've only played 5k hands so like you say could be a small sample
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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gingerwizard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,815
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Ive been 2-tabling the $10NLs. Its so cool how you see the same players almost everytime you go on. PT and your own notes make it so much easier to read them and pwn them. E.g. got a great read off this guy who really over bets his TP hands and slow plays his sets, flushes etc. Stacked him four times this weekend and twice in an hour last night. Awesome.
I think the 10NL is a little looser but when its all regulars often $.40 raise gets folded around. You on stars pants?
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This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
...but tending to limp my big hands and so far it's working. Do you guys think this is a good adaptation to the table or should I still raise big hands and hope someone else has a hand to play against me?
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'splain what you mean by "big hands". If you're open limping overpairs/AK/AQ, don't.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Yeah I'm on Stars Ginger, if I keep building my roll I'll move up to your stakes
@warpe yes I have open limped AA KK and AK because I was fed up with raising with them and it folding round. I realise I'm causing some problems for myself on subsequent streets but I can let an overpair go if I think it's beat. But hey it might be a bad play, I just can't see how not getting any action can be good. I don't believe in absolute rules to play by as so many situations can arise but if someone can demonstrate that it's almost always better to raise big hands then thats cool.
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
@warpe yes I have open limped AA KK and AK because I was fed up with raising with them and it folding round. I realise I'm causing some problems for myself on subsequent streets but I can let an overpair go if I think it's beat. But hey it might be a bad play, I just can't see how not getting any action can be good. I don't believe in absolute rules to play by as so many situations can arise but if someone can demonstrate that it's almost always better to raise big hands then thats cool. |
*sighs*
There are a gajillion threads on here that explain why this is bad. Search for them and read them. You deserve every stacking you get by playing these hands in unraised pots and letting marginal hands hit the flop hard.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Look what you say is fair enough, but if you think I'll easily commit my stack with top pair you underestimate me. Big pots are for big hands only, I generally want at least a set to play for my stack and that's still dependent on the board and the betting etc. All I'm saying is that at an exceptionally tight table might it not be ok to limp big starting hands, even though there is risk that you'll have to fold when someone starts betting big with a hand that would have folded to a raise pf. Or maybe raising more hands is the way to go so people are forced to loosen up against you and you get more action on big hands? I'm sorry if this is all old news to you regulars I just want to have some discussion, I'm not stupid just inexperienced 
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
Or maybe raising more hands is the way to go so people are forced to loosen up against you and you get more action on big hands?
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This is a better line of thinking.
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Pants_101
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 442
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Ok cool I'll try this approach next time, seems to fit with the kind of style I'm trying for anyway
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Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
I was fed up with raising premium hands and it folding round
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I have a friend who thinks this way. He never made it past min stakes.
Forget about trapping opponents you percieve to be smart, until you build big pots with big hands against opponents who are actually more stupider than you could ever imagine.
Acting weak when strong at low levels is EXTREMELY BAD POKER.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Yeah if they fold a lot, then raise more hands, that's standard play.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
yeah I was playing the fool, guess it didn't come across. Thanks for the correction anyway
$.02/.05
$.02/.05
$.02/.05
I'm suprised how tight so many people are at these limits, is it the same at 25nl? |
stop playing on stars then...
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pants_101
I was fed up with raising premium hands and it folding round
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I have a friend who thinks this way. He never made it past min stakes.
Forget about trapping opponents you percieve to be smart, until you build big pots with big hands against opponents who are actually more stupider than you could ever imagine.
Acting weak when strong at low levels is EXTREMELY BAD POKER. |
QFT
Also. If raising AA works at 100NL+ then it sure as hell will work at 10NL
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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