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badgers
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08-03-2009, 01:59 AM
Post subject: QQ in a 3bet pot again
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Villain is wowxxxthatsBS, he runs fairly aggro at around 18/13, I only have 300 hands on him on my new database, but he has a 5% 3bet over that sample. Opener is boogerxxx369.
River plan?
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
8 players
Converted at weaktight.com
Stacks:
UTG ($203.00)
UTG+1 ($231.90)
MP1 ($203.00)
MP2 ($87.00)
CO ($200.00)
BTN ($282.90)
Hero (SB) ($303.55)
BB ($215.00)
Pre-flop: ($3, 8 players) Hero is SB  
4 folds, CO raises to $4, BTN raises to $16, Hero calls $15, 1 fold, CO folds
Flop:    ($38, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
Turn:  ($38, 2 players)
Hero bets $24, BTN calls $24
River:  ($86, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $58, $58 to Hero ($263.55)?
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KillsAids
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 120
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I'd rather b/f river than c/c, maybe half pot to get called by J9 type of hands? I think if you check here you pretty much gotta call but obv QQ/JJ are the bottom of our range to do so.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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River is a c/f
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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bump.
I shoved
I figure he can easily have me beat in a few ways but none than that can call a shove apart from like AT and even that is in a really shit spot. I can have 88-TT and flushes (although the shove is thin with a flush..).
I feel like this can be AA/KK again, similar to the other hand although his range is obviously fairly wide, it wouldn't surprise me to see AA/KK here as our range looks fairly face up. There is nothing in our range that can bluff, so from his perspective AT should probably be a fold (whether he will is another matter).
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wakeup
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oz
Posts: 117
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how bad is a cold 4b/call pre if hteres any kind of reg on reg dynamic?
i think its more ev+ than playin with our hand face up as a big PP
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shove is not thin at all with a flush
I shove flush all day and hope he calls with Tx
also, good spot to 4b bluff since you're deepish (140BB vs. the button)? he shouldn't be getting it in too wide when you 4b cold
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wakeup
how bad is a cold 4b/call pre if hteres any kind of reg on reg dynamic?
i think its more ev+ than playin with our hand face up as a big PP
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I haven't got out of line vs. him yet so I don't think it's an option here. For it to be ok I think he would need to see that I am capable of cold 4bet bluffing, since even when regs see you 3betting/4betting a ton and cold 4bet still gets a ton of respect.
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KillsAids
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 120
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
I shoved
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Sick. I'd puke and fold if I was him and had no boat... Well, I'd call you down with JJ myself cause of all the funky history we got and end up puking anyway when you show me your "bluff".
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
shove is not thin at all with a flush
I shove flush all day and hope he calls with Tx
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Okay so what do you do with QQ? Can you at least answer what you'd do with the hand in question and not if you had w/e?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
also, good spot to 4b bluff since you're deepish (140BB vs. the button)? he shouldn't be getting it in too wide when you 4b cold
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Umm why are we 4b bluffing pockat queens, I don't understand your logic sir.
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Btw I like our shove if villain is capable of folding Tx 
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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I do agree that it's a great spot to 4bet bluff, particularly since booger has a high fold to 3bet although idk what he minraises with. If I didn't think I could profitably play the hand postflop I would certainly 4bet bluff here. However, the fact that a 4bet bluff is so profitable also means that the button has a wide enough range to make playing QQ here profitable but not easy.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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This is absurdly bad, you cold-called a 3bet OOP and you expect him to give you credit for having a huge hand on this board? More than likely he's going to give you credit for exactly QQ and play accordingly since that's what regs always have when they cold-call a button 3-bet from the small blind.
If he folded you had the best hand.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Well if I'm betting the river as villain its probably to snap a shove. Its so hard for you to rep a boat or flush. You could have AA but that's a pretty dumb line too.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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ok thanks guys I thought it was possibly epic spew hence posting ty for feedback.
I wasn't really sure what range villain would give me preflop, getting nearly 19:1 implied odds and with the possibility of a 3way flop, I think a lot of 200nl regs would call 88-TT here and I would put that in my range if I was villain (fwiw I would be 4betting 88-TT in this spot almost always). However, considering this hand more I can also put AcKx or AxKc in my range, which makes the bluff horrendous and makes the river a check/guess.
I do spewy shit sometimes  I hated folding and wasn't too keen on calling so I spazzed epic.
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