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tstrout
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03-25-2010, 08:59 PM
Post subject: Putting an opponent on tilt
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
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The following happened at a $1-2 ring game in December live at the Golden Nugget. I've just sat down at the table and sit a few rounds without much action; the table seems kind of dead, so I decide to try to whip up a frenzy to generate some action. I have $300 in front of me. UTG player, well-dressed male with about $500 in front of him, raises to $12. In middle position, I look down and see AKo. I raise to $100 to stir up the table. Everyone folds back to the UTG player who grunts and groans a little before throwing his hand away. I win $15.
A few rotations later, UTG (same guy) raises to $12 again and I look down at my hand to see AKs this time. I raise to $100 again just to continue my appearance as a maniac. Everyone folds to UTG. He looks really upset and mucks his cards. I win $15.
The very next rotation, UTG (same guy) raises to $12 once more. This time I look down and see AA. What should I do?
I'll post what happened later.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Why don't you just make a normal 3bet size to begin with..and just increase your frequency if you want to create a loose image?
Your terrible sizing just allows him to sit and wait for the nuts because you don't understand leverage.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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shove
Since your idea of stirring up a table seems to be to get the least amount of value while getting dealt the nuts every second hand.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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You should've posted this on live forum. There are a few differences between 10-handed live and online 9-handed FR. This guy seems very timid, so i'd just make $30-36 and let him shove for his whole stack.
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OhioRounder
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
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Are you raising this much to appear as a maniac or are you doing it because you don't want to see a flop? Popping it to $30-40 is much more likely to get worse hands to call, but it's obvious that's not what you want. In regards to the AA hand, any thinking player would be suspicious when you don't raise as much compared to what you had been raising, so you might as well do it a third time and hope he 4bet shoves either out of frustration or believing he has the better hand. Then again, $1/2 casino games are full of morons so you never know. It's like playing the penny tables online.
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tstrout
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
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I understand that the 3-bet on my 1st two were not optimal for making money on those hands. I was trying to look like an a**hole who didn't know how to play. Anyhow, I seriously considered raising to $36, but I ended up thinking he would decide to make a stand against this thief running him over, so I raised to $100 again. This time, he got much more noticeably angry and shoved on me which of course I insta-called. He showed KJo. After I doubled up through him, he promptly left the table. I made about $350 on that hand plus the other two thefts for $30. If I hadn't tilted him so badly by my ridiculous 3-betting, I would've made $36 on the hand after he was forced to fold the flop (all rags). Maybe, but doubtful, I could've made $380 with normal sized 3-betting over the 3 hands. I also could've lost money as well.
I'm not saying I did anything right other than influencing a man's temperament and exploiting it.
I guess my only real point here is that the optimal play (normal sized 3-bet) is not always optimal over an entire session. One other note, I never showed what i raised to $100 with on the 1st two hands. I also thought he was going to shove over me on the 2nd one and was quite surprised he waited until the 3rd one. One final note, he is the only guy at the table that I did this to (my other plays were fairly standard) and was doing quite well other than that one huge mistake.
Sorry I posted this on the wrong forum.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tstrout
I understand that the 3-bet on my 1st two were not optimal for making money on those hands.I was trying to look like an a**hole who didn't know how to play. Anyhow, I seriously considered raising to $36, but I ended up thinking he would decide to make a stand against this thief running him over, so I raised to $100 again[. This time, he got much more noticeably angry and shoved on me which of course I insta-called. He showed KJo. After I doubled up through him, he promptly left the table. I made about $350 on that hand plus the other two thefts for $30. If I hadn't tilted him so badly by my ridiculous 3-betting, I would've made $36 on the hand after he was forced to fold the flop (all rags). Maybe, but doubtful, I could've made $380 with normal sized 3-betting over the 3 hands. I also could've lost money as well.
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Huge leak. And there is some serious results orientedness coming from the rest of your post. Like luckily for you you had AA at the perfect time to be dealt AA.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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OhioRounder
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
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Don't try to justify 3betting 50bbs. Chances are he's frustrated that you've 3bet him 3 times in a row and not the price you're laying him to make the call. Even if you min-raise him he's still going to get pissy.
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tstrout
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
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You guys are right about the coincidental nature of what happened in the deals over the session. Weird stuff like that rarely happens, but when it does, it's time to take advantage. Ask yourself an honest question, what would your calling/shoving range be in an online game if someone took the same line on you? Wouldn't you have to make a stand eventually? How will you ever know the right time to do it? It would have to be based solely upon your holdings, because I could have anything. It's stupid to play as I did, I know that, but human nature dictates you will stand up to me at some point, but you couldn't possibly know I was that strong 3 times in a row when you happened to have a hand worth bettting UTG.
When someone opens for 4BB UTG in an online game and you are on the button with aces, the standard play is to make a nice raise and try to make it look like some position play and not a monster. You pray to get 4-bet and get it all in. Suppose instead you just shoved all-in right off the bat. The guy did raise UTG, so he must have something good right? Probably real good. And you look like a moron shoving and also quite weak like you don't want a call. What's your calling range going to be? Do you also need aces? Doubtful. Kings? Queens? AKs? Jacks?
I've done this to people playing $5-10 online and gotten called many times. So who is the idiot? The shover or the caller?
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tstrout
So who is the idiot? The shover or the caller?
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You.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Yes. You are.
If you're looking for people telling you how awesome you are, you came to the wrong place. What you are doing is you're coming up with all those ingenious plots how to win at this game because you don't understand how it works and you don't know how to think about it.
The right place for you is the beginners circle digest. But tbh I think that ship has sailed for you. - Just because I don't think you have the right attitude to learn.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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pretty lucky how you always get dealt the nuts when this guy is UTG, almost like it never happened
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tstrout
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 68
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There is lots of anger here. Not sure how I incited such a riot with this post. This site has a very small box of thought going on. You are all trying to play the exact same way, and that's very good for people like me at the tables. Probably all read the same books. I've read those books too, at least 40 of them. The main thing I learned from those books is how to beat the players who treat them like bibles.
If you think a guy shoving preflop with aces is a donk, you're a fool. Poker is a situational game not a math formula, which BTW I have an advanced degree in. A solid read on a situation beats everything you've ever read in a book or discussed on these forums.
Ever considered that looking like a donk when you're not is exactly the perfect strategy to clean up against the purists like yourselfs? I'm sure you haven't, and that's good for me. I posted this as my final post to truly attempt to help this narrow-minded group expand its thinking. Sadly, I failed at this, but again it is to my benefit.
And Carroters, for some reason you think I play on some site with a username tstrout. I do not, that is purely a coincidence. I keep my pstars account name to myself to avoid giving away how I play. If you ever make it up to the higher stakes, I'll be waiting for you. And when I bust you, I'll reveal to you who I am. So keep thinking you have it all figured out, and I'll show you how little you really know should you ever get there, but based on your posts, I'd stick to .25-.50 for at least a few more years.
BTW, as I explained to meeloche in a private message, I am a Software Architect for the largest gaming (and in case you don't know, that means gambling) company in the US. What exactly do you think I work on? Want a hint?
You started playing last September? Well you must know it all then with all your experience. I started playing online 6 years ago and live many years before that. Ever played heads up for $2000? It's quite a rush. Of course, if you lost, that's your entire roll gone, so I wouldn't advise it. Maybe I'll climb down to .25-.50 for an evening and humble you a bit. BTW, I make your entire roll in a week at my job.
Good luck and adios.
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kiwiMark
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nu Zuland bru
Posts: 940
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All you bad players just got served imo. He doesn't even NEED to win, he's got an advanced job maths.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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He plays 25NL on merge, this is hillarious.
Oh and if I played 2000NL Hu and lost a stack that'd be only HALF my roll gone. SHIP IT! Or 12x yours whatever's easier for an imaginary mathematician to work with.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,837
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No way in hell would his sn be such a big secret if he was a player. We've had lots of guys come around thinking internet secrecy allows them to be anything they want. I for one think he's full of shit, as evidenced by the fact that he never post's a hand and his responses to other threads. tstrout has no clue.
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Dex
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bringing the mind home.
Posts: 172
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kiwiMark
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nu Zuland bru
Posts: 940
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^nh sir, I also felt that line wasn't getting enough love.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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BooG690
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,439
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You guys all got pwned.
The thread is entitled "Putting Your Opponent on Tilt." He obviously achieved this.
I know I'm tilting pretty hard after reading this idiocy.
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That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
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d0zer
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,527
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LOL great fucking thread 
in b4 tstrout tells us what his IQ is.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer
LOL great fucking thread
in b4 tstrout tells us what his IQ is. |
lololol. Good one daven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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OhioRounder
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 171
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What a dick waving contest this thread turned out to be. Might as well add to the post count before lock. 
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioRounder
What a dick waving contest this thread turned out to be. Might as well add to the post count before lock. |
doubt this thread will get locked, too epic.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Should be moved to the BC.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I also have an advanced degree in math formulas.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Dex
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bringing the mind home.
Posts: 172
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The gift that keeps on giving.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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lmao I can haz more? This thread is fucking awesome.
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rpm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: maaaaaaaaaaate
Posts: 2,051
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i definitely got a laugh from M2M's penguin. it just looks so retarded.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,814
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i will read this thread over and over in an attempt to expand my thinking. He has a point tho, those (players like me i mean!) stuck at 200nl and below after a couple of years in the game are clearly not quite getting it. Keep posting dude 
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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OMG IT WORKS
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP2 ($100)
MP3 ($102.50)
CO ($99.40)
Button ($80.05)
SB ($100)
Hero (BB) ($100)
UTG ($100)
UTG+1 ($124.35)
MP1 ($134)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , A
2 folds, MP1 bets $35, 5 folds, Hero raises to $100 (All-In), MP1 calls $65
Flop: ($200.50) K , 7 , 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: ($200.50) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($200.50) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $200.50 | Rake: $3
Results:
Hero had K, A (one pair, Kings).
MP1 had A, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: MP1 won $197.50
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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Santo2True
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: On The EAST side
Posts: 186
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hahaha, i love it^^^
that's what i've been doing wrong all along... time to start shoving
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"Those who say it can't be done, shouldn't interrupt those who are doing it"
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Wow, M2M you just got trouted hard.
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Penneywize
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 886
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L-O-fucking-L... this thread guys, guys, this thread.
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Figment
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One Pair
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 22
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I laughed for nearly 28.3% of an hour at M2M's penguin. Tstrout can use his advanced math to figure out how much time that is if you're curious.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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i like the penguin
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,465
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bump 
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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OngBonga
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,060
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Jesus, Legion of Doom, they were my favourite when I was a stupid twat who thought wrestling was real.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
ongies gonna ong
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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lol, omg, dex's 18th century pimp meme post is sosososo win.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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mbiz
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Orstraya
Posts: 178
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Watch out carroters you pissed him off. And if hes angry now just wait till he sees your avatar
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 999
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posting in funnies thread.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
Jesus, Legion of Doom, they were my favourite when I was a stupid twat who thought wrestling was real.
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I had the shoulder pads and everything
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OngBonga
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,060
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmind
I had the shoulder pads and everything
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Fucking wow. I can only begin to imagine how much of a dickhead I would look wearing those aged 12.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
ongies gonna ong
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HarleyGuy13
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,226
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fun read
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"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it |
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06-01-2012, 11:03 AM White House Responds to Poker Players Alliance's Petition
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