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Protect or give up?

  
 
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finky
Old 11-22-2005, 11:03 PM     Post subject: Protect or give up? #1 (permalink)  
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I have a recurring problem where I have a good hand (TPTK, Overpair), and I get into a situation where i'm not sure if I need to chase out the draws and punish weaker hands or if I need to limit the size of the pot against a slowplay.
e.g.

1st orbit, no solid reads

***** Pacific Hand History for Game 119414404 *****
$1/$2 Blinds No Limit Hold'em - *** 11 18 20:46:36 2005
Table Saint Luis Rey Regios (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 10: nobueno1 ( $135.92 )
Seat 1: ANCARTER ( $856.91 )
Seat 2: liv40day ( $340 )
Seat 3: Akumila ( $189 )
Seat 4: DonnaZ ( $221.55 )
Seat 5: fearme85 ( $211.95 )
Seat 6: pfsafety ( $638.35 )
Seat 7: freesole ( $216.08 )
Seat 8: arroyo7 ( $291.4 )
Seat 9: f1nky ( $214 )
liv40day posts small blind [$1].
Akumila posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to f1nky [ :Kh: :Ah: ]
DonnaZ calls [$2].
fearme85 calls [$2].
pfsafety folds.
freesole folds.
arroyo7 folds.
f1nky raises [$6].
nobueno1 calls [$6].
ANCARTER folds.
liv40day folds.
Akumila folds.
DonnaZ calls [$4].
fearme85 calls [$4].
** Dealing Flop ** [ :Jc:, :Ks:, :Tc: ]
DonnaZ checks.
fearme85 checks.
f1nky bets [$20].
nobueno1 calls [$20].
DonnaZ folds.
fearme85 calls [$20].
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
fearme85 checks.
f1nky checks.
nobueno1 checks.
** Dealing River ** [ :As: ]
fearme85 bets [$20].
f1nky calls [$20].
nobueno1 folds.

results in white

** Summary **
fearme85 shows [ Qc Kc ].
f1nky mucks.
fearme85 collected [$123].

Should I have bet the turn here? I dont want to let draws in cheap but I felt I might be behind with 2 calls. Would'nt 2 pair / trips raise or reraise that flop on quite a scary board? All comments welcome.

Try to ignore the weak PFR (still in 100NL mode)

Keep moving up to 200NL, keep dropping down again...
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Nugunz
Old 11-22-2005, 11:33 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I dont think you really have to worry about a set, since not many people limp UTG with JJ or KK, 10/10 maybe. The way he check/called the flop, then checked the harmless deuce to you I think smells of a draw. I wouldve bet the pot on the turn. You have to call that river bet. Ive seen some really crappy losers lose their stack thinking their two pair is good on this kind of board, but I play $25NL so its a sea. If he calls a pot sized bet and hits his card, nothing you can do.
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TalentedTom
Old 11-22-2005, 11:48 PM #3 (permalink)  
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He woulda called the turn anyway. The only thing I would do different is size up the opening bet. This is not a good flop for TPTK :/
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r8ed
Old 11-23-2005, 01:44 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Pot the turn even though in this case he's calling.
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 11-23-2005, 04:37 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 I think the main problem here is that you should raise more preflop.

Someone here must have a Q
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EricE
Old 11-23-2005, 05:12 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I think the main problem here is that you should raise more preflop.

Someone here must have a Q
Because you know that the board will end up 4 to a straight? Come on, he raised 3X from LP. Perhaps he should raise up more with AK to define his hand for everyone? I don’t buy that. The board beat him, its just one of those things. The river is just a crumby card that improves him but improves someone else more. That’s poker.
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finky
Old 11-23-2005, 08:08 PM #7 (permalink)  
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yeah, preflop was embarrisingly weak but i figure if I pot the turn i'm getting at least 1 caller, maybe 2. Thats a $250/330 pot with only $100 left and I still wont know where i'm at.

I dont want to get destacked on a hand like this but how would pushing the turn be, nerfing draws implied odds, hoping for folds or a call by KQ (not of clubs )?
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BankItDrew
Old 11-23-2005, 08:37 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 I'm check/calling value bets here on the river. All of a sudden, one queen of the four available beat you.


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johnny_fish
Old 11-23-2005, 11:27 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Why bet the river? Only the Q would call.
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finky
Old 11-24-2005, 12:47 AM #10 (permalink)  
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no way was I raising that river, if the villian bet any more than half the pot I'd have to consider a fold. I think BankIt may have misunderstood my problem.
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BankItDrew
Old 11-24-2005, 05:28 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 Was you problem that you had top two pair and the other guy had a straight?


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allLiving
Old 11-24-2005, 05:35 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Preflop I make this $10 to go.

3x + 2 limpers bets = $10

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finky
Old 11-24-2005, 06:39 PM #13 (permalink)  
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My problem was the turn, on the river i'm sure I'm beat but getting 5:1 with top 2 pair is too good to turn down. I also think i've been playing 100NL for too long, raising $6 with AKs just seemed like the natural thing to do
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