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Fnord
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11-13-2005, 08:45 AM
Post subject: A pre-flop problem.
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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FTR home game. $100 buy-in, .5/1 blinds.
Although I've been drinking, my image is tight. Partly because I'm card dead, partly because I'm already getting too much action in this game. I have around $80.
Tyson is in MP and tosses in a $5 chip. He's drunk, opening a lot of pots (30-50% or so) for a red chip and c-betting a lot. He has ~$150.
I'm next to act in the Hijack with K Q
CO is X i a n t i. He's fairly sober and playing well, but maybe mixing it up a bit too much. He's been mixing it up with Tyson, but calling too much and getting the worst of it. He also has around $200 (luckbox.)
Button is a tight player trying to loosen up. Mostly plays online SnGs and would be a terror with $2.5/$5 blinds. Playing very aggro post-flop and making some really stupid calls because he feels the next card comming. He also has around $200 (nice suck-out.)
SB is tight, passive and straight-forward.
BB is looser, but even more passive and straight-forward.
What's my play and plan for post-flop?
What range of hands would you re-raise here? Call? Plan for post-flop?
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SinkRox
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 624
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sounds like a lovely mix of players wanting to be lively, get action and mix things up [unfortunatly some are obviously good players at this but probably half aren't]
Therefor table is blatently loose so surely you'd want to tighten up pre-flop.
I get the impression players are tricky loose post flop, so dont respect their raises so much. Dunno about a profitably stratergy eg would it be best to add more passiveness to your post-flop play or more aggression? I dunno, but you obviously can have less respect 
Sounds like a good game, unfortunatly I only have 2 die hard poker mates, about 5 others that enjoy it a bit but never get involved for just a .1/.2NL ...no home games for me 
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Experimenting - 200NL 5max.
"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" Waking life
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Well first of all you don't worry about the SB or BB. You have position on them, and they read easy.
You're sitting with Xianti and Button guy to your left. Xianti has a chance of perceiving any reraise you make as a loose isolation against the raiser. If you've been tight however, you try this anyway since you'll be given credit enough times. Even if you aren't, it's ok. One things for sure. You likely have a better hand than Tyson.
The button is trying to loosen up, but it seems he wouldn't be ready to challenge a reraise by you at this point without a real hand since you've been pretty quiet. Based on all this a reraise is in definate order. Tyson is asking to be isolated against, and you have the current tight image to be awarded this priveledge sometimes as stated earlier.
Tyson is raising everything. He could have a bad ace, but beyond any ace you have him in a spot where he can be pushed off unless he really woke up with something. Therefore, another reason why I reraise preflop is to give myself fold equity on his bad ace if I get fancy enough to use it, and see if he actually did wake up with something. If Xianti or the button get involved behind me, then I get a terrific read on their preflop hand strength as well. If you just call Tyson's raise, then who knows what they're calling with behind you. A Tyson raise is not a representation. You need to make sure there's an actual representation present to get a better read on two guys behind you. Ok moving on.
Your plan is to use your image to lift your reads preflop with a reraise, and punish Tyson with an isolation. Even if you get callers behind you, then power play any rag flop. Your preflop reraise will give you credit for an overpair. other than that there are a thousand and one scenerios for different kinds of flops and postflop action that will form your decisions.
Reraise reraise!
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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I'm all about a re-raise here. Make it 15 to go and punish the drunk. If you get any action behind you after that large of a re-raise, I'd be very cautious. From your description, you have not been playing policeman much and the other players are probably conscious of that, so a call on your hefty re-raise is very dangerous (at least a pocket pair). A call from Tyson of course means nothing. You want to iso on him and you want position on everybody in the hand, so definitely re-raise, and not just a tiny amount.
You asked about a re-raising range: I'd start with KQ and go up from there. KQ+, 88+ in the world of pairs. If you re-raised him twice I'd tighten the range back up a bit because you don't want to start getting action from the bigger stacks behind you who are trying to play loose.
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TalentedTom
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 289
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I would move all in
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Tom.S
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TalentedTom
I would move all in |
Do the math. What if his all-in call range is AA/KK/QQ/AK maybe JJ? If a player behind me wakes up with a hand? What's your plan for winning the max for the next 2 orbits?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
Make it 15 to go and punish the drunk.... A call from Tyson of course means nothing.
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Naturally tight but dunk players won't make this call with any 2. Well at least neither Tyson nor Xianti would... Not against me the way I've been playing...
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Naturally tight but dunk players won't make this call with any 2. Well at least neither Tyson nor Xianti would... Not against me the way I've been playing...
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See, you didn't give that description ("naturally tight") on Tyson before. You do prefer action over a fold so I think a doubler re-raise to $10 is about right. He'll call because folding for that amount is stupid, and you still send the right signal to Pimpmaster X ("get outta my pot"), if not quite so strongly.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Tyson == Ttanka. Sorry...
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Gotcha.
Another possibility is smooth call the raise, hope Xianti reads it right ("tight boy comes to life! I'm outta here!"), expect action from the button but not the blinds, and play for top pair (or rep something on a garbage board). Smaller chance of winning the pot, but you might get paid more. I don't have any hard math that says one option is better than the other, and I wouldn't go this route if I felt like a call from Xianti was likely.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
Gotcha.
Another possibility is smooth call the raise, hope Xianti reads it right ("tight boy comes to life! I'm outta here!"), expect action from the button but not the blinds, and play for top pair (or rep something on a garbage board). Smaller chance of winning the pot, but you might get paid more. I don't have any hard math that says one option is better than the other, and I wouldn't go this route if I felt like a call from Xianti was likely.
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No offense, but I hate this play. You give too many people good pot odds to call the initial raise. I would call with a ton of hands given 4 to 1 on my money. The blinds probably jump in on this too with any decent hand. Calling is disaster unless you hit the flop BIG. The play here is to isolate.
I like the re-raise to $10. I think you can isolate Tyson with this hand, and if you get a $10 smooth caller he must have something worth serious consideration. Your min-raise screams KK or AA which is great for a continuation bet. I would rep any raggy/safe board irregardless of hitting it. If you put any more than $10 in this pot, you are getting dangerously close to playing for your stack due to the pot size. Hell with a PFR of $10 you might be playing for your stack already by the turn. Be ready to re-buy.
I would also re-raise to $10 with any KJ, KTs, KQ, AK-AT maybe A9s, and PP to 99. All these hands should likely be beating VP~40% and you have position. I would call with any PP 99-55 trying to set up and c-bet irregardless.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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TalentedTom
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TalentedTom
I would move all in |
Do the math. What if his all-in call range is AA/KK/QQ/AK maybe JJ? If a player behind me wakes up with a hand? What's your plan for winning the max for the next 2 orbits?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
Make it 15 to go and punish the drunk.... A call from Tyson of course means nothing.
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Naturally tight but dunk players won't make this call with any 2. Well at least neither Tyson nor Xianti would... Not against me the way I've been playing... |
Put him on JJ and move all in.
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Tom.S
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