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Fnord
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03-22-2008, 01:26 PM
Post subject: Post-flop bet sizing problem
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#1 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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$3/$5 $300 max. 6 handed (3 empty seats.)
My opponent and I both have around $450
Opponent is loosening up, and will float around light, but will fold pretty tight to serious money. He thinks I'm weak/passive/readable and he can control this table.
MPish limps
LP raises tp $10
I make it $40 from the SB with Aces
MP folds
LP calls because he's not going to let me push him around
~$85 in the pot, ~$350 behind
K84 rainbow
How are we getting maxium value here?
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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i probably trap this guy and delay cb in later streets. Betting 1/2 pot sounds all right, i guess.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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I think a standard C-bet here is the way to go. He floats/thinks you are playing back at him. This is the perfect flop for a cbet, and therefore a perfect flop for him to float. I would imagine you would be able to gauge his reaction to both your bet and the flop enough to be able to judge whether he will be able to call/raise your turn bet. If he can't, then a CR on the turn should get a significant amount in the pot.
If he raises your flop lead, then CR turn.
A lead of ~65 puts 215 in the pot and 285 behind, so a large turn bet should be enough to have opp committed with any actual hand. I may attempt to c/c turn, CR river if I though he was capable of firing the river with any regularity.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
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Location: Northern Virginia
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I'd probably bet close to pot on flop and check/bomb turn
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Warpe
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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What 3-bet range does he put us on 3-handed?
Leading is standard but given reads and board I like a slowplay here - check/tank/call, c/r turn. If turn checks through lead river, c/r if we're confident he'll bet shown weakness.
Sounds like he thinks he's smarter/better than you and he might check through with AK/KQ on a safe turn to get you to stab at the river with JJ/QQ-ish stuff.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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check to tank call and c/r all in on turn or some weak ass bet to let him shove over us
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
What 3-bet range does he put us on 3-handed?
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6 handed game, 9 handed table.
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dev
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,550
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He floats a lot and you took initiative pre, so that says we have to lead, but that king could cripple the range of hands we get value from. so... c-bet 60/check-call/push should get it in against 99+, AK, KQ, KJ and maybe KT or A8.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Why would you ever check the flop to this guy with Aces in the hole?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Why would you ever check the flop to this guy with Aces in the hole?
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You said he's folding tight. There are no draws on the board and since you 3-bet pre, checking the flop makes JJ/QQ/other crap that doesn't beat KK a more likely holding for you, therefore making it more likely that he'll continue/bet out in position with a K if he has one and perhaps with less. We don't have to play AA straightforwardly and predictably everytime we have it, esp on perfect boards for slowplay.
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Warpe
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03-22-2008, 10:33 PM
Post subject: Re: Post-flop bet sizing problem
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#11 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
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If I do bet out here I'm making it weak.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
JJ/QQ/other crap
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LoL, you're been playing too much online 
You can heavily discount AQ+/AA-TT and figure that he's almost always seeing a flop with his crap to make some sort of stupid point about being stubborn.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
What 3-bet range does he put us on 3-handed?
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6 handed game, 9 handed table. |
sorri, misread. still, you didn't answer.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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He probably thinks I'm making such a large bet to get him to fold.
I aso doubt he's really thought much about 3-bet ranges, 3-bet defense, etc. So maybe he puts me on a bipolar range here.
When he min-raised he kinda shrugged/laughed and said "it's short-handed." So I'm pretty sure it's a fooling around raise with something like KT, QT, JT, KJish or a small pair or perhaps not even that good of a hand. Suited Aces, weak Aces and suited connectors wouldn't surprise me as much as JJ would.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Betting out is playing your cards, not the player. I'd want to give him a chance to think his Kx could be good.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
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if he is Kx he will think its good at least for this street no matter what we bet. the problem is getting value when he has something worse, which is a ton of the time.
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Results:
I bet $50 on the flop to induce some action from a clear c-bet size. He called.
I followed through for $100 on the turn for pure value. He called.
Then I shoved the river for ~$250. He tanked for a while. "Nice Bluff" blah blah blah blah blah "Wow, didn't think you would follow through" blah blah blah "Did you have a King?" "I had two pair" (yeah right) blah blah blah.
Mixed feelings about a bet c/r line. I think a line like $60 on the flop and $150 on the turn would have had more value against his aggressive calling. I thought about a river check, but once he calls the turn I hate to let him showdown one pair for free on the river.
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