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jrnumbers1
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12-07-2008, 06:49 PM
Post subject: Possibility of Folding KK?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6
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.25/.5 NL Full Ring. Early position and you get KK. You raise 3x - 4x the BB. Player in middle position reraises to $6. It folds around to the button who then reraises $24 more. Is this a snap push or is there a possibility of folding in any way. How about with QQ?
Keep in mind:
All players have $50 stacks
Players are playing tight aggressive.
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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You can fold QQ here, not sure about KK it depends what reads/stats you have.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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i dont have the habit of laying down KK unless the button is an uber nit like 8/6,7/5 or 6/4 stats over a large sample size.
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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Don't fold here, I'm not one of the players that says never fold KK preflop, but button's raise is somewhat likely to be with a wider range than just AA because he's on the button and the raise is so huge. Player in MP could have AA too but there's no reason to think that his range isn't wider than that. You don't have to snap shove though, you can hollywood for a little bit since the only hand better than yours will call no matter what. QQ is a fold imo.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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why would we fold when the flop is gonna come K high?
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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it depends.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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bikes
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a hot damn mess
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,464
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I folded KK today PF. I still feel dirty
Raised UTG 3.5x
UTG+2 3b 10/6 with a 1% 3b
I cried alittle inside.
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"the world def needs more bikeses"
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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shove to fold out a chop
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bbickes
I folded KK today PF. I still feel dirty
Raised UTG 3.5x
UTG+2 3b 10/6 with a 1% 3b
I cried alittle inside.
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huh? Its not a big mistake IMO. I folded KK Vs uber nits in these situations a few times and still felt OK.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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you do realize 1% is QQ+?
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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yeah but that includes lp battles obv his UTG+2 3b % is not going to be the same.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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FriskyPirate
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Palm Springs
Posts: 92
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As Harrington would say, when you have KK, someone has AA only 1 in 24 times...very difficult to make reads this accurately when people bet a lot of funny ways. I side with Action Dan and maybe fold them 1/1000. Even Daniel Negreanu put a video on PokerVT recently where he said he had a perfect read on villain and made the huge lay down of KK pre-flop. He then laughed and said the guy showed him QQ. Now that was tournament and not cash but you have to be right so many times that I personally think it is more profitable not to fold them pre.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bbickes
I folded KK today PF. I still feel dirty
Raised UTG 3.5x
UTG+2 3b 10/6 with a 1% 3b
I cried alittle inside.
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i wish villain flipped over seven doo-ey. you'd really've been crying then 
in all seriousness, what sample size did you have to make such a read-dependent laydown? i'd assume at least like 500 hands or something?
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FriskyPirate
you have to be right so many times that I personally think it is more profitable not to fold them pre.
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"you have to be right" is closer to 50% of the time.
I've folded KK 7 times preflop. 3 times I did not see villains hand, the other 4 times villain ultimately showed hand, each time holding AA. So I never feel dirty letting them go because I can soul read.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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L_Clan_Sup3rMaN
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 834
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
why would we fold when the flop is gonna come K high?
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this.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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I've folded KK preflop a few times this year, and have been satisfied with the decision each time.
Folding sets on the flop is a much less explored activity.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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I have never folded KK preflop and all the times where I thought it would be right, I was correct about 50% so I will still never do it
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Mr Bigcity
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Auburn
Posts: 122
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Never fold KK preflop unless the opponent shows you aces or runs around screaming i got aa like phil hellmuth and annie duke did in a live tourney
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