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pgil

07-21-2008, 03:44 PM Post subject: position experiment

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Posts: 1,103

lately I have noticed that I am a calling station spew monkey. this is not good. I have also noticed that my small-medium pot game is not holding up too well at 200NL. At 100NL it was good. I need to make some adjustments, probably mainly to my position play.

to do this, I am going to, over my next few sessions, only play hands from position. I will not raise loosely from E/MP. I will not call unless I will have good position postflop, and I will try to abuse the button like it's my job, because it is. I hope to have extremely skewed position stats over this sample, and think it is not unreasonable to expect that over 60% of the hands that I am playing, will be played from the button.

this will also be a lesson in discipline for me, as I love to play hands, and folding a decent hand from MP in an unopened pot will be tough. but it will only be raised if I can steal the button with a good deal of regularity. hopefully a little bit of discipline will help with the first problem that was mentioned.

wish me luck

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GatorJH

07-21-2008, 03:46 PM

#2 (permalink)

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good luck

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a500lbgorilla

07-21-2008, 03:48 PM

#3 (permalink)

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i think the biggest mistake people make is their gut reaction is to call.

I think this is a good experiment. I think a better one would be to cover you cards every time you have the button and see how much money you make! obv you can look at what you have when it's a probable showdown situation.

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pgil

07-23-2008, 04:29 AM

#4 (permalink)

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so, the first day of this experiment went kinda meh. I did a decent job of playing mainly in position, a few out of position plays, but not much. unfortunately, big hands went down in flames in big pots, and I was down 1 1/2 BI's over just under 1000 hands.

here are the position stats. My button winrate would be much better if not for an AK hand where the river gave me trip aces. maybe misplayed the river, but maybe not. (hopefully the stats show up).

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BankItDrew

07-23-2008, 07:42 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Playing more than half of your Button hands is a leak.

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Fnord

07-23-2008, 07:51 AM

#6 (permalink)

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6 max my default stealing range on the button is around 45% of my hands.

Against a full ring nit EP opener, you can't play nearly that many hands because you don't have pre-flop fold equity.

edit: Actually 45% might be too tight for PS 200NL....
edit2: Online full ring at 50-200NL+ I'd raise ATC unless one of the Blinds is known to be loose.

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badgers

07-23-2008, 11:00 AM

#7 (permalink)

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I love the idea of this experiment and i'll be very interested in how it goes. I'd like to see you playing more hands from the CO though, I think the gap between the two is too big, if the button is tight your CO range should only be a little bit narrower than your button range

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pgil

07-24-2008, 04:51 AM

#8 (permalink)

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so, day two went a little better. In the positive this time. ran a little looser overall, so will probably have to work on that. had a couple of tough hands, 1 of which was a TT from the SB. damn oop hands.

anyways, here are stats for day two. managed to take down a few more pots in semi-float situations as I got more comfortable. also was able to take down a few with some double barrel turn and river bluffs (also tried to semibluff turn and then bluff river against top set, but oh well. worst played set ever, not really but it was bad).

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

euphoricism

07-24-2008, 08:04 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Why is your 4 off the button always so much higher than 3 off and 5 off?

pgil

07-24-2008, 02:56 PM

#10 (permalink)

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hadn't noticed that. could be small sample. just checked, and it is just a matter of sample size. there were no hands played from 4 off that shouldn't have been given the nature of this experiment.

although my 3 off the button could be tighter because there is 1 more person who can raise pf before it gets to me, and I generally don't call raises loosely from 3 off the button, which reduces the number of hands that I can open raise.

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

pgil

07-25-2008, 05:02 AM

#11 (permalink)

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so, day 3 is in the books. Not bad overall. I think I was running a little looser from position other than the button, which I will have to work on. Although, in my defence, there were some absolutely horrendous players at some of my tables, and not playing more hands against them would have been a crime against nature. Though I'm sure that doesn't account for all of the added looseness from not-the-button.

1 thing I have to try to remind myself is that playing the button is not about winning every hand from the button, it is about winning more when ahead, losing less when behind, and stealing those pots that noone else seems to want, or have any part of. A couple of times I found myself making dumb plays because I had this feeling that I should be winning just because I had position, and I think that once I get over this completely (not just on a mental level, but once it is ingrained), then my results will be better.

here are today's stats.

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

pgil

07-25-2008, 04:05 PM

#12 (permalink)

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probably post some hands, see if my lines (both of thought and of play) are any good.

Hand 1. Villain is something like 16/14 over a few hundred hands, semi-reg (AFAIK, I don't play enough to know either way). The 3bet is likely to be somewhat light, I think he has 3bet me once earlier in a similar spot where I folded. the pf call may be pure spew, but the flop sure was pretty, and asking for a raise. I doubt he has a lot of Q's, and if he doesn't he can't continue here.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($391)
CO ($271.80)
Hero ($200)
SB ($191.50)
BB ($348.55)
UTG ($273.45)
UTG+1 ($235.75)
MP1 ($180.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5

, 9

.
5 folds, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, BB raises to $20, Hero calls $14.

Flop: ($41) Q

, Q

, J

(2 players)
BB bets $26, Hero raises to $56

Hand 2. calling station vs calling station. Opp was bad, called too much. I really don't like the way I played the hand. Anyone bet the turn again, or check behind flop.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($197)
CO ($254.95)
Hero ($197)
SB ($377.50)
BB ($358.55)
UTG ($261)
UTG+1 ($412.45)
MP1 ($197.75)
MP2 ($180.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, 6

.
6 folds, Hero raises to $6, SB calls $5, 1 fold.

Flop: ($14) J

, 7

, J

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB calls $10.

Turn: ($34) K

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($34) 7

(2 players)
SB bets $14, Hero calls $14.

Final Pot: $62

hand 3. Not really sure about this hand. I decided to just call on the button to kind of mix things up a bit, make my calling range a bit stronger OTB, fun stuff like that. Also, opp was prone to making min-raises and such from most positions, so I didn't really know what to make of his normal sized raise, so I played it straightforward/cautious. Really unsure of the river. I was really close to just calling the river, but then decided that the only A's he has in his hand from there that he doesn't min-raise are AQ/AK, whereas I can have a lot of random low aces, as well as PP's/sets. I can also push KK on this river, but I doubt he knows this.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($25.75)
CO ($105)
Hero ($288.10)
SB ($237.50)
BB ($112.25)
UTG ($201.10)
UTG+1 ($42.40)
MP1 ($178.60)
MP2 ($189.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A

, K

.
UTG raises to $6, 5 folds, Hero calls $6, 2 folds.

Flop: ($15) A

, 5

, 7

(2 players)
UTG bets $8, Hero calls $8.

Turn: ($31) 9

(2 players)
UTG bets $16, Hero calls $16.

River: ($63) A

(2 players)
UTG bets $62, Hero raises to $166, UTG calls $104.

Final Pot: $395

Hand 4. opp is capaneo. He plays a lot of hands, regardless of position, and usually manages to take down a lot of pots on the flop or turn with aggressive betting. Is also very capable of felting lighter when he thinks people are playing back at him, and is usually right from what I have seen in my small sample against him.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($279)
MP1 ($149)
MP2 ($187.60)
CO ($110.35)
Hero ($205)
SB ($41.35)
BB ($284.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8

, 9

.
UTG raises to $8, 3 folds, Hero calls $8, 2 folds.

Flop: ($19) 9

, J

(2 players)
UTG bets $12, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($43) 5

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $24, UTG calls $24.

River: ($91) 2

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero...

question, does a river bet get him off of any hands here? I think I have done a decent job of representing a few different strong hands: flushes, Jx, boats.

"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce

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