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Pocket Rockets with Big stacks

  
 
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KewlKatt
Old 07-14-2004, 11:58 AM     Post subject: Pocket Rockets with Big stacks #1 (permalink)  
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Thought I would give the .50/1 NL tables a try at stars last night for the first time. I've been solid in the NL tourneys and the limit tables, so I wanted to see if I could be as successful for the real coin. I started with $40, and over the course of about an hour I managed to turn that investment into over $200. The weak players had pretty much been cleaned out of the table by this point, and only strong/decent players remained with some good stacks.

I want to get some feedback on the following hand, what you would have done at decision time and why. The table was loose, to the point of people calling PFR of $5 with A-rag, here is what when down, I'll post what I did after I get a little feedback.

PokerStars Game #543135514: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2004/07/13 - 23:18:37 (ET)
Table 'Demophon' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: bigernwood ($120.85 in chips)
Seat 3: jeaton ($100 in chips)
Seat 4: NinjaZX ($230.65 in chips)
Seat 5: 2Joff ($99 in chips)
Seat 6: jiggajeff ($177.55 in chips)
Seat 7: KewlKatt ($214.25 in chips)
Seat 8: JPMShoe ($110.15 in chips)
Seat 9: Seadevil ($54.75 in chips)
Seadevil: posts small blind $0.50
bigernwood: posts big blind $1
kamsa: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to KewlKatt [As Ah]
jeaton: folds
NinjaZX: folds
2Joff: folds
jiggajeff: raises $2 to $3
KewlKatt: raises $7 to $10
JPMShoe: calls $10
Seadevil: folds
bigernwood: calls $9
jiggajeff: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qh Kc 6s]
bigernwood: checks
KewlKatt: bets $31
JPMShoe: raises $31 to $62
bigernwood: raises $48.85 to $110.85 and is all-in

????? Decision time....

KewlKatt
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Toasty
Old 07-14-2004, 12:53 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Its to hard to say without player reads, Its probably a time to fold there aren't many hands calling the raise pf that would bet like this on that flop that you beat, AK is about it.

If this player would make that raise with AQ he's not really a solid player. I would go for KQ and you are loseing to 2 pair at best. Worst case scenario someones had KK/QQ pre flop and had a set.

I'm coming down on the side of a fold. $235 in the pot $80 to you around 3:1 odds on your call but I don't expect to see you ahead more than 25% of the time.

The reason I say all this is because you said only the solid players were left, if any were bad players I'd say call everytime.
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fishstick
Old 07-14-2004, 04:54 PM #3 (permalink)  
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yeah - if you say solid players, the check raise by biggernwood screams of QQ or KK.

and who knows what the first flop raise has?
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KewlKatt
Old 07-14-2004, 05:40 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Well you both are better at reading the hands than me. I took one for having the AK and the all-in as Toasty mentioned KQ, but I couldn't bring myself to fold and called them both seeing the potential wninings instead of potential loss. Here is how it played out...

KewlKatt: raises $48.85 to $159.70
JPMShoe: calls $38.15 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Qh Kc 6s] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [Qh Kc 6s 4h] [Jh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
bigernwood: shows [Kh Ks] (three of a kind, Kings)
KewlKatt: mucks hand
bigernwood collected $21.40 from side pot
JPMShoe: mucks hand
bigernwood collected $330.95 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $355.35 Main pot $330.95.
Side pot $21.40. | Rake $3 Board [Qh Kc 6s 4h Jh]
Seat 1: bigernwood (big blind) showed [Kh Ks] and won ($352.35) with three of a kind, Kings
Seat 3: jeaton folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: NinjaZX folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 2Joff folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jiggajeff folded before Flop
Seat 7: KewlKatt mucked [As Ah] - a pair of Aces
Seat 8: JPMShoe (button) mucked [Qs Qc] - three of a kind, Queens
Seat 9: Seadevil (small blind) folded before Flop

They both out played me. I can't consider this a tough beat because I was beat on the flop. I'm still having difficulty using my table assesment when the hands are being played out. You guys have any tips that I should be implementing to avoid crashes like this one?

What would have been a better bet to collect more information after the flop? 30 was the pot size, I pretty much gave away my top pair.

I get into these situations all the time where I have a really good hand, but couldn't read the other player for having the extremly good hand. Sometime after that hand I ran into the same type of problem. I had (no PFR), A4s and the flop came rags, 2 being spades, light bet, enough to keep me in on pot Odds, J turns up, turn checks, Js comes on the riv and completes my Ace High flush. I bet 15, other guy pushes me up to 45. Thinking he had a lower flush I call and get greated by 3's full of jacks. The guy was slow playing trip 3's he landed on the flop.

I've been in even worse hands with 4 of a kind, full house, and a flush. 4 of a kind landed it on the flop and check/called to the river. I had the full house on the turn and anoter guy had the Ace high flush on the riv. Both of us got creamed by the 4oak.

KewlKatt
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fishstick
Old 07-14-2004, 05:54 PM #5 (permalink)  
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hey kewl,

i know the $ loss hurts, but this is one of those hands just bound to inflict pain.

preflop - nothing you would have done would have folded either one of them.

flop - what else could you do? a check would have told you nothing.

you needed to respect bigernwood's check-raise, based on his solid play, and board, although, if you're putting him on AK, that's tough.

i think the biggest thing working against you was your position - you were first to bet preflop and you get called. you know have the best hand preflop, but who knows what they have. i could see even a solid player (depending on what their take is on your play) calling with AK, JJ, maybe even TT.

all around evil hand!
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michael1123
Old 07-14-2004, 09:30 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Yeah, I think you played it perfectly until calling the two big raises. By that point, unless they both are complete maniacs, you have to assume you're beat, and you have 2 outs.

Its REALLY hard to do, but I think you have to fold your pocket aces there. One raise and a call, and you'd have to call, but with the two big raises, you had to actually put more into the pot than you already had put in. That's not good in that senario.
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DrNoChance
Old 07-22-2004, 03:28 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I'd agree. The only reasonable hand they could be holding that you beat is AK, and even then somebody would have to be overplaying it considering that board. It's never easy to fold AA post flop, but this is one of the easiest folds for AA you'll see. I'm not suprised that they each had a set.
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johnnyawe
Old 07-22-2004, 04:47 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Ouch!

Yeah, if two other people are showing strength like that, you have to figure one of them has 2-pair or better, especially with that board.
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Old 07-22-2004, 04:59 PM #9 (permalink)  
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