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kibbles
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05-01-2006, 07:06 PM
Post subject: pocket dueces...
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
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I had been pretty quiet at the table, not getting much in the way of hands. I dont usually play pocket dueces vs a raise, but i thought id see a flop....I know I could have played this better, thats why im posting it  .
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG+1 ($11.45)
MP1 ($41.05)
Hero ($24.90)
MP3 ($41.90)
CO ($23.90)
Button ($21.35)
SB ($20.05)
BB ($16.50)
UTG ($9.75)
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 2 , 2 .
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 2 folds, Button raises to $1, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.75.
Flop: ($3.35) 4, 3 , 5 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, Button bets $1.25, UTG calls $1.25, Hero calls $1.25.
Ok, so i now have lowest pair and a open ended, i checked to see where he stood, then he fires out a continuation bet, Im thinking he has AK/AQ/etc.
Turn: ($7.10) 6 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2, Button raises to $6, UTG folds, Hero calls $4.
River: ($19.10) A (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $6.5, Hero calls $6.50.
Should I have bet instead of checked? I was %99 sure he would fire back, and if so, how much?
Final Pot: $32.10
With the exception of not putting him all in on the river, is this a good play? (had a bad beat 10 hands prior, little apprehensive)
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WildBobAA
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: lol i dunno
Posts: 1,811
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First of all, you should start playing pocket deuces vs a raise if you're getting the right implied odds if you flop a set. Second, I would not draw to the straight on the flop. Others may disagree but I would just dump it after I missed my set on the flop.
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kibbles
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by WildBobAA
First of all, you should start playing pocket deuces vs a raise if you're getting the right implied odds if you flop a set. Second, I would not draw to the straight on the flop. Others may disagree but I would just dump it after I missed my set on the flop.
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Normally i would too, without even thinking twice, however, that raise did not feel like a 99-AA. So i thought id stick around with somewhat of a sleeping monster.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Ya, you should be calling reasonable raises with pairs if you think a set will get payed off. As played, I like your flop call with better than 4-1, OESD, and possibly the winning hand so far. Sometimes you should float like this for a reasonable price, intending on a surrender into turn strength unimproved.
Your value extraction centers around the hand you put an opponent on. When he raises you on the turn, are you putting him on the 7? Is this opponent capable of raising Q7-A7? If not then reraise his ass.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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kibbles
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
Ya, you should be calling reasonable raises with pairs if you think a set will get payed off. As played, I like your flop call with better than 4-1, OESD, and possibly the winning hand so far. Sometimes you should float like this for a reasonable price, intending on a surrender into turn strength unimproved.
Your value extraction centers around the hand you put an opponent on. When he raises you on the turn, are you putting him on the 7? Is this opponent capable of raising Q7-A7? If not then reraise his ass.
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When he reraised me my only worry was 77,hand history showed him only raising with face cards, 4 hands prior showed he only called .25 with 99, so I had now put him on tt-AA or AK/AQ (was pretty sure....).
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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I agree with the flop call…possible best hand and a good draw.
But I would have tested him more on the turn or river. He gives me no solid reasons to think he has the 7 and a straight is worth more to me than that pot indicates. If I didn’t 3 bet the turn then I would certainly be salivating when the A shows on the river. You have to imagine he holds an A and now thinks he is GTG. As such, a large reraise or even an all in should be presented to the river.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by WildBobAA
First of all, you should start playing pocket deuces vs a raise if you're getting the right implied odds if you flop a set. Second, I would not draw to the straight on the flop. Others may disagree but I would just dump it after I missed my set on the flop.
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I agree with captain bob here, this is a terrible reverse implied odds situation.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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It is imperative that you start calling up to 5xBB pre-flop raises w/ any pocket pair if both you and the raiser have close to full stacks. With this hand I would definitely call the flop bet - sometimes I c/r here too. I'd be happy to get it AI on the river. Bet into him and then re-raise him AI.
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kibbles
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 21
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by WildBobAA
First of all, you should start playing pocket deuces vs a raise if you're getting the right implied odds if you flop a set. Second, I would not draw to the straight on the flop. Others may disagree but I would just dump it after I missed my set on the flop.
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I agree with captain bob here, this is a terrible reverse implied odds situation. |
So you fold after his flop bet?
Quote:
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It is imperative that you start calling up to 5xBB pre-flop raises w/ any pocket pair if both you and the raiser have close to full stacks. With this hand I would definitely call the flop bet - sometimes I c/r here too. I'd be happy to get it AI on the river. Bet into him and then re-raise him AI.
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Roger that.
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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Bear in mind Villian may play differently on the button than OOP. Once you made up your mind to pursue the hand post flop, (A reasonable decision), the rest of the hand played out fine. If the Villian has 67S or 78S is his betting any different?
One of two things is clear, the Villian likes his hand or is willing to bet reasonable amounts with overs. I don't see anything wrong with just calling rather than pushing. If he has 67/77/78 make a note of it (that he'll reraise in position).
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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Raise pre-flop.
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Seasider
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bangor UK
Posts: 563
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Raise pre-flop.
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I like the raising option with pocket pairs because lots of people are 'on to' the whole set hunting thing. If you raise and hit your bet looks like a c-bet on a raggy flop and might get raised  I'm on work comp at the moment but thinking back I have taken down my biggest pp pots recently when I raised pf. It also keeps people guessing as to your hand when you raise.
I am raising lots and lots of pp's sooty connectors and other random stuff 3xbb in position in 6 max, it's cheap to get away from sets up monsters on the flop or in the future and really starts to annoy the blinds and table in general. You know its working when the table captain starts explaining why you are a fish to anyone who will listen.
That said I pretty much only raise 77+ and play below this for simple set value, perhaps I'm too tight in this regard. In this hand I drop it on the flop, I dont like drawing to the bottom end of a straight. Although you had a good read on him someone else in the hand may have a 7. So I am basically drawing to 2 outs i'm comefortable with and I try not to make a habit of this.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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It's an even better play in online full table games than 6max IMHO. 6 max players will play back at you with air and make loose calls more often.
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