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Please tell me how too play this hand?

  
 
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Borax
Old 05-26-2005, 10:37 PM     Post subject: Please tell me how too play this hand? #1 (permalink)  
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Borax
0.25/0.5$ NL 10 player

How did I play and How should I have played this

Dealt to Borax in UTG

------------------
OpeningBetRound
------------------
X : Sits out
SB : Posts small blind 0.25
BB : Posts big blind 0.50
Borax (UTG) : Raises for 2.00
UTG+1 : Folds
UTG+2 : Folds
MP1 : Folds
MP2 : Calls for 2.00
CO : Folds
Button : Calls for 2.00
SB : Folds
BB : Folds
------------------
Flop

------------------
Borax : Bets 6.00
MP2 : Calls for 6.00
Button : Calls for 6.00
------------------
Turn

------------------
Borax : Bets 20.00
MP2 : Calls for 20.00
Button : Went all-in 39.70
Borax : Went all-in 18.70
MP2 : Went all-in 18.25
Button : Receives returned betting money 1.00
------------------
River

------------------
Showdown
------------------
MP2
- Three of a Kind - T's
Button
- Three of a Kind - Q's
Borax
- One Pair - Q's
------------------
Result
------------------
Borax Showed Cards
MP2 Showed Cards
Button Showed Cards (Winning) 137.40
------------------
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Bezique
Old 05-26-2005, 10:41 PM #2 (permalink)  
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After catching 2 callers after the flop bet I'd be hesitant about playing so agressively afer the turn. I'd consider jumping out of the hand. The all in should certify that you are beat. You have to ask yourself why they are betting at you after you are showing steady strength throughout the hand.

Unless both are bigtime bluffers get out. In fact as 2 people are playing along with you even if they are big bluffers I'd get out

You have to accept that TPTK is not the nuts

I say check fold the turn, the earlier play is fine in my opinion
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journey075
Old 05-26-2005, 11:33 PM #3 (permalink)  
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lol i laughed when i saw the showdown.

i wouldve played it the same i think. their flop calls are weird and make it look like theyre drawing for the flush. you have to assume your hand is good and bet to kill their odds. i like your heavy turn bet but when you are raised it looks like youre behind. however you have to call it due to the amount you have invested already.

i see a mistake in betting the turn so heavily just as i see a mistake in slowing down on a board that has such a blatant draw. your position sucks so im not sure what you can do about it. you cant check and risk giving a free card and you have to bet a considerable amount due to the amount in the pot already.

chances are id also go out on this hand.


EDIT: the only good move here is folding to the all-in raise. i didnt see that it was another $20 more. tough spot to fold though, id be quite impressed if anyone laid the hand down here. i suppose when you can fold to a less than double raise when you have been the aggressor over 6 cards is when your game has seriously improved.
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BobbySalami
Old 05-26-2005, 11:40 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I think I woulda played it the exact same.....two smooth calls either mean slow playing a monster or on the flush draw......so I would have also tried to shake em on the river.

Sucks you ran into some monsters there........
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ChezJ
Old 05-27-2005, 02:05 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezique
After catching 2 callers after the flop bet I'd be hesitant about playing so agressively afer the turn. I'd consider jumping out of the hand. The all in should certify that you are beat. You have to ask yourself why they are betting at you after you are showing steady strength throughout the hand.

Unless both are bigtime bluffers get out. In fact as 2 people are playing along with you even if they are big bluffers I'd get out

You have to accept that TPTK is not the nuts

I say check fold the turn, the earlier play is fine in my opinion
check-fold the turn with TPTK? i think your opinion has been tainted by seeing the results. this is party $50 NL no? people are going to call you down with all kinds of crap like second pair. i would not worry at all until the huge raise on the turn. then i would think about it long and hard but i would not be auto-folding, no way.

ChezJ
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a500lbgorilla
Old 05-27-2005, 03:59 AM #6 (permalink)  
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The turn raise is when you know you're in trouble. You have an almost guarenteed caller in the MP1 and only TPTK 3-ways for 20 bucks more.

You can drop it here, since you probably don't have outs against one of the two left.

-'rilla

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wmitty
Old 05-27-2005, 06:01 AM     Post subject: help #7 (permalink)  

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rilla makes the point.
You Knew you were dead when he raised
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Bezique
Old 05-27-2005, 07:43 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Terribly sorry everybody, I was clearly a little more tired than I thought last night. I thought the flop had come down a rainbow, misread one of the clubs for a spade - hence my not considering a flush draw.

I guess that changes things rather.

Anyway seeing the hand as it actually is it does leave me wondering about how precarious it is.

You need to beat people's odds of drawing to the river for the flush. So surely you need to push more than 40% of the pot, otherwise in the long run you're likely to be loosing money. The trouble I see though are the occasions such as this, where people arn't drawing and actually have good hands which are well hidden.

Won't you be running into trouble if you bet harder than 40% but still get a caller? Many players will draw without the odds yet you have to worry about trips. as well since there are no odds to draw.

Even played well I cant imagine that there is much long term profit from this situation

As far as I can see this is a perfect example of how being 1st in the betting leads to problems

Is this a valid problem? Or do I need to get burned again?
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Borax
Old 05-27-2005, 11:05 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Thanks for comments.
My thoughts on the hand was quite wrong.
I thought the QQ guy would have reraised me with QQ and actually I didn't consider QQ much with the two Q's allready in play. I thought he could be holding a set, but actually I put him on a straight draw with KJ or a flush draw with AKc or AJc also giving him a gut shot for straight. I was 90% sure that the TT guy was a fish chasing something. I felt like I had to bet high given all the drawing possibilities. The all in reraise on the turn I read as a very possible bluff, but I should have had a better read on the Button guy. I aggree that folding to the reraise would have been a good idea given the result, but I'm still not that good...and I thought maybe the risk was worth it with both the other two in the pot, if they were bluffing and/or drawing, like I thought.
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JeffreyGB
Old 05-27-2005, 12:55 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bezique
Even played well I cant imagine that there is much long term profit from this situation
Sorry, but I just had to laugh at this...TPTK vs Mid set vs Top set; clearly not profitable in any time frame. I know that's not what you meant, but that's how I read it, and it just busted me up.
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homerdash
Old 05-27-2005, 02:00 PM #11 (permalink)  
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I don't know if I would have raised preflop from UTG with AQs for this very reason. It's a good hand but I'd like to have position with it. Maybe a limp then reraise either the TT or QQ guy who raised to see where you're at. If there's one thing I've learned by now it's that POSITION EQUALS TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. sorry, been watching too much Bill Fillmaff recently.
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dalecooper
Old 05-27-2005, 02:39 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I would bet somewhat less along the way. I don't like getting into these hands where I have to call off my entire stack with TPTK just because of the pot odds. Bet 2/3 or 3/4 of the pot on the flop, 1/2 the pot on the turn, and if you get raised there you can let it go. Highly aggressive betting (betting the pot, at least, on every street) will make you money against certain fish, but it also means you never have the opportunity to reconsider the hand and get out if you're behind. I believe you will experience bigger swings and less long-term profit betting that hard.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 05-27-2005, 03:55 PM #13 (permalink)  
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FishMagician
Old 05-27-2005, 06:55 PM #14 (permalink)  
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It hurts to fold tptk to a $20 raise in a $120 pot, but you got to know you're beat here. The fact that his raise represents such a small percentage of the pot actually makes it less likely to be a bluff, since he knows there's little chance you'll fold.
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