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drmcboy

08-19-2004, 03:59 AM Post subject: Please evaluate lay down

#1 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,602

This was at 5/1 SnG at PP, was chip leader at one point, still second and strong... then I folded here and the momentum went against me. Shouold I have called? Didn't have much of a read on the raiser, he was maybe a little loose, but had enough hands to be chip leader.

***** Hand History for Game 858063606 *****
50/100 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5321290) - Wed Aug 18 23:20:02 EDT 2004
Table Table 12206 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: El_Sueno (1325)
Seat 4: vette01 (975)
Seat 5: ChixC (690)
Seat 6: xxxCaponexxx (665)
Seat 7: badoodles (945)
Seat 8: drmcboy (1375)
Seat 9: jsock (575)
Seat 10: keny888 (1450)
jsock posts small blind (25)
keny888 posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to drmcboy [ Qs, Ah ]
El_Sueno folds.
vette01 folds.
ChixC calls (50)
xxxCaponexxx folds.
badoodles calls (50)
drmcboy calls (50)
jsock calls (25)
keny888 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5s, 2s, As ]
jsock checks.
keny888 bets (50)
ChixC calls (50)
badoodles folds.
drmcboy raises (200) to 200
jsock folds.
keny888 raises (300) to 350
ChixC folds.
drmcboy calls (150)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Tc ]
keny888 bets (1050)
keny888 is all-In.
drmcboy folds.
Creating Main Pot with $2050 with keny888
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2050
Board: [ 5s 2s As Tc ]
El_Sueno balance 1325, didn't bet (folded)
vette01 balance 975, didn't bet (folded)
ChixC balance 590, lost 100 (folded)
xxxCaponexxx balance 665, didn't bet (folded)
badoodles balance 895, lost 50 (folded)
drmcboy balance 975, lost 400 (folded)
jsock balance 525, lost 50 (folded)
keny888 balance 2050, bet 1450, collected 2050, net +600

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08-19-2004, 05:09 AM

#2 (permalink)

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{This post has been removed}

Fnord

08-19-2004, 06:06 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I don't see any reason to call the flop. I'd re-raise right there.

edit: Toasty is right. Ignore me, I'm a SnG scrub.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Toasty

08-19-2004, 08:26 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: England UK

Posts: 1,522

I don't mind the line you took at all, this is a 5/1 SNG and its not that unlikely he limped with suited trash. You have around a 20% chance to hit the flush on the river and its only queen high. With that considered I think you made a good lay-down.

The flop raise shows strength and he re-raises, I think the call is ok as a fold might make people take shots at you on the flop later, when the turn card doesn't bring a

and he goes all in its an easy fold.

Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .

Fnord

08-19-2004, 08:34 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

my guess is that he had an Ace with a lower kicker.

Is min-raise the flop, push the turn more likely to be a passive player with an Ace or a monster (please don't fold too fast)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

drmcboy

08-19-2004, 11:52 AM

#6 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,602

Thanks for the posts - I was also thinking maybe he came in with say 8s9s, or maybe slow playing AxKs, hoping we both make flushes.

SteveO

08-19-2004, 01:49 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2004

Posts: 755

Raise on CO with AQo. Too many limpers that could have anything in that pot. I would have called his reraise and see if he will make a mistake and check it down. If he shows weakness on turn, bet the river. He could have a low flush made, he could have Aces up, he could have a set, he could have nothing, but I doubt it. The best you could hope for is if he were holding something like A-Js.

Contrary to Rippy's philosophy, never push it on a draw, especially if it is not to the nuts unless you are short stacked and have few moves left.

Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!

08-19-2004, 03:17 PM

#8 (permalink)

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{This post has been removed}

SteveO

08-19-2004, 07:58 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2004

Posts: 755

Ok, but still the only way he gets a call is if he's beat. I think AK is out because there was no PF raise. Probably up against a set or made flush or maybe K high flush draw on a semi bluff. Based on his chip position it is not worth the risk for me anyway.

Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!

Fnord

08-19-2004, 08:01 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveO

Ok, but still the only way he gets a call is if he's beat.

I couldn't disagree more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

SteveO

08-19-2004, 08:42 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2004

Posts: 755

I didn't say fold, I said don't go AI. You gave 3 other people a cheap look at the flop. There is 3 to a flush and 3 cards to the wheel on the flop. All you have is top pair with a good kicker. You have a nice stack early in the tournament. Call the raise. Maybe take a stab on turn or river if he shows weakness and checks it down but your nuts if you go AI.

Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!

michael1123

08-19-2004, 11:21 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

I agree with Toasty here. What's new?

Had to call the minraise on the flop. Had to assume you're beat on the turn. To answer Fnord's question, with a board like this and a min raise on the flop and push on the turn, this screams monster (but vulnerable - i.e. not a high flush) to me, from my SNG experience. He was possibly hoping to get reraised after his min-reraise, or at least seeing if you would, and possibly also looking to keep ChixC in. Also notice how he lead weak at the flop and then reraised. He was begging you to make that rather big raise on the flop. On the turn he's worried you have a high flush draw and isn't going to give you a cheap river. I think he has one of 3 possible hands: low flush, two pair, a set (55 or 22). A straight is possible too, given that he's the BB and you just minraised, but its far less likely than the other 3, in my opinion.

Your biggest mistake was preflop. A min raise is not enough to fold a BB with almost any cards, when the blinds are this low. You should've bet at the very least 3x BB, and you may have gotten him to fold a marginal hand preflop that became a monster.

Humphrind

08-19-2004, 11:29 PM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael1123

I agree with Toasty here. What's new?

What's new is that you know who you agree with.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

michael1123

08-19-2004, 11:45 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

Hahaha, good point.

bellkev

08-20-2004, 12:33 AM

#15 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 14

to me, i would say that you lost the hand on the flop when you called the 100 raise. that was the point you backed off. you had top pair and possibly the best flush draw and only called a small raise, re raise or save the 100 chips imo...

Fnord

08-20-2004, 12:59 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Arguably he's actually drawing to something, so the flop call isn't that bad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

michael1123

08-20-2004, 01:06 AM

#17 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Rochester Hills, MI

Posts: 1,720

Yeah, I was just going to say, if a heart hits on the turn, I think he has the winner. The nut flush wouldn't min raise on the flop, giving away too much of his strength for a small increase of the pot. He'd maybe do that on a draw to the nuts, but I doubt it. In any case, he should call on the turn if a heart hits. But I doubt the guy would've went all in on the turn in that case, as I don't think he had a high heart.

drmcboy

08-20-2004, 04:28 PM

#18 (permalink)

DrButtInski
Administrator

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 9,602

Both of these make a lot of sense to me.

Quote:

Your biggest mistake was preflop. A min raise is not enough to fold a BB with almost any cards, when the blinds are this low. You should've bet at the very least 3x BB, and you may have gotten him to fold a marginal hand preflop that became a monster

I've gotten burned a lot with AQo or AJo and tend to overplay, so I was trying to be cautious, see if maybe the flop will give me the monster. Would most folks raise on the button with AQo? Looking back now it seems like I may have been able to grab the blinds plus the callers with a raise.

Quote:

May have out thought myself here - if I had been in the BB and limped in with a couple weak spades, I probably would have bet the same way Keny888 did, trying to see if somene had the better flush. Also with the three spades out if I make a set I would again put in a low bet and see if someone comes back with something big indicating the flush. But I guess you could also argue that someone coming back over the top (like me!) could have nothing but top pair...

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