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please comment on these hands.

  
 
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alodyne
Old 01-10-2005, 05:46 PM     Post subject: please comment on these hands. #1 (permalink)  

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Location: Seattle
Posts: 5
alodyne
Hi all,

Let me know what you think. I'll post the showdowns after the analysis/slapping is over.

*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #1058868849: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2005/01/09 - 20:24:57 (ET)
Table 'Aura' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Castledawn ($2.05 in chips)
Seat 2: disp1991 ($4.18 in chips)
Seat 3: birdalf ($0.84 in chips)
Seat 4: meshuls ($0.95 in chips)
Seat 5: Bill Elliott ($0.72 in chips)
Seat 6: Happy71868 ($1.91 in chips)
Seat 7: manzanita ($1.01 in chips)
Seat 8: SharpsburgEd ($3.18 in chips)
Seat 9: alodyne ($1.98 in chips)
manzanita: posts small blind $0.01
SharpsburgEd: posts big blind $0.02
Bill Elliott: posts small & big blinds $0.03
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to alodyne [Kd 8d]
alodyne: calls $0.02
Castledawn: calls $0.02
disp1991: calls $0.02
birdalf: folds
meshuls: calls $0.02
Bill Elliott: checks
Happy71868: folds
manzanita: folds
SharpsburgEd: checks
*** FLOP *** [9h Jh Qd]
SharpsburgEd: checks
alodyne: bets $0.02
Castledawn: folds
disp1991: calls $0.02
meshuls: calls $0.02
Bill Elliott: calls $0.02
SharpsburgEd: folds
*** TURN *** [9h Jh Qd] [Ts]
alodyne: bets $0.16
disp1991: raises $0.16 to $0.32
meshuls: folds
Bill Elliott: calls $0.32
alodyne: folds
*** RIVER *** [9h Jh Qd Ts] [4s]
disp1991: bets $0.24
Bill Elliott: raises $0.11 to $0.35 and is all-in
disp1991: calls $0.11

*********** # 35 **************
PokerStars Game #1055575730: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2005/01/09 - 00:31:24 (ET)
Table 'Gerarda' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 3: JatFay ($0.27 in chips)
Seat 4: Jonesyc13 ($1.96 in chips)
Seat 5: drew966c ($2.60 in chips)
Seat 6: alodyne ($3.63 in chips)
Seat 7: jedimasters ($1.19 in chips)
Seat 9: westie44 ($2.51 in chips)
drew966c: posts small blind $0.01
alodyne: posts big blind $0.02
jedimasters: posts small blind $0.01
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to alodyne [3c Tc]
jedimasters: calls $0.02
westie44: folds
JatFay: folds
Jonesyc13: calls $0.02
drew966c: calls $0.01
alodyne: checks
*** FLOP *** [4h 5c Kc]
drew966c: bets $0.02
alodyne: calls $0.02
jedimasters: calls $0.02
Jonesyc13: calls $0.02
*** TURN *** [4h 5c Kc] [2c]
drew966c: checks
alodyne: bets $0.08
jedimasters: folds
Jonesyc13: calls $0.08
drew966c: calls $0.08
*** RIVER *** [4h 5c Kc 2c] [Jd]
drew966c: checks
alodyne: checks
Jonesyc13: checks

This next hand especially was very frustrating.

*********** # 50 **************
PokerStars Game #1055530300: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2005/01/09 - 00:19:27 (ET)
Table 'Ueta' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: fluf ($2.11 in chips)
Seat 2: SinTax88 ($1.36 in chips)
Seat 3: michigan05 ($1.97 in chips)
Seat 4: McMangoes ($1.08 in chips)
Seat 5: Festah ($5 in chips)
Seat 6: georgiegal ($2.44 in chips)
Seat 7: yotomo ($3.09 in chips)
Seat 8: alodyne ($1.98 in chips)
Seat 9: j84stang3 ($0.62 in chips)
michigan05: posts small blind $0.01
McMangoes: posts big blind $0.02
Festah: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to alodyne [7d 7c]
Festah: checks
georgiegal: calls $0.02
yotomo: folds
yotomo leaves the table
alodyne: calls $0.02
j84stang3: calls $0.02
fluf: calls $0.02
SinTax88: folds
SinTax88 leaves the table
michigan05: calls $0.01
McMangoes: checks
*** FLOP *** [Td 8s 7s]
michigan05: checks
McMangoes: checks
Festah: checks
georgiegal: checks
alodyne: bets $0.10
j84stang3: calls $0.10
fluf: folds
michigan05: folds
McMangoes: folds
Festah: calls $0.10
georgiegal: calls $0.10
*** TURN *** [Td 8s 7s] [9s]
Festah: bets $0.20
georgiegal: calls $0.20
alodyne: folds
j84stang3: calls $0.20
*** RIVER *** [Td 8s 7s 9s] [9d]
Festah: bets $0.50
georgiegal: folds
j84stang3: calls $0.30 and is all-in

*********** # 55 **************
PokerStars Game #1055513288: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2005/01/09 - 00:15:00 (ET)
Table 'Gerarda' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: ameer_dam02 ($2.35 in chips)
Seat 2: 3Georgetown3 ($1.50 in chips)
Seat 3: JatFay ($0.45 in chips)
Seat 4: Card Thief ($2.27 in chips)
Seat 5: drew966c ($1.58 in chips)
Seat 6: alodyne ($3.69 in chips)
Seat 7: jedimasters ($1.28 in chips)
Seat 9: westie44 ($1.87 in chips)
jedimasters: posts small blind $0.01
westie44: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to alodyne [9c 8c]
ameer_dam02: folds
3Georgetown3: folds
JatFay: folds
3Georgetown3 leaves the table
ameer_dam02 leaves the table
alodyne said, "nh"
Card Thief: calls $0.02
drew966c: calls $0.02
alodyne: calls $0.02
jedimasters: folds
westie44: checks
*** FLOP *** [3c 2s 9d]
Skott joins the table at seat #1
westie44: checks
Card Thief: checks
drew966c: checks
alodyne: bets $0.02
IamAceHigh joins the table at seat #2
westie44: raises $0.06 to $0.08
Card Thief: folds
drew966c: calls $0.08
alodyne: calls $0.06
*** TURN *** [3c 2s 9d] [Qh]
westie44: checks
drew966c: checks
alodyne: checks
*** RIVER *** [3c 2s 9d Qh] [Tc]
westie44: checks
drew966c: checks
alodyne: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
westie44: shows [4s Ac] (high card Ace)
drew966c: shows [2c 4c] (a pair of Deuces)
alodyne: shows [9c 8c] (a pair of Nines)
alodyne collected $0.33 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.33 | Rake $0
Board [3c 2s 9d Qh Tc]
Seat 1: ameer_dam02 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: 3Georgetown3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: JatFay folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Card Thief folded on the Flop
Seat 5: drew966c showed [2c 4c] and lost with a pair of Deuces
Seat 6: alodyne (button) showed [9c 8c] and won ($0.33) with a pair of Nines
Seat 7: jedimasters (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: westie44 (big blind) showed [4s Ac] and lost with high card Ace

For the last hand, I have included the showdown because what I really want to know is, how could I have anticipated that my weenie pair of nines was going to win? The answer I'm expecting is "more aggressive betting" but what do you think?

*********** # 56 **************
PokerStars Game #1055507800: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02) - 2005/01/09 - 00:13:35 (ET)
Table 'Gerarda' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: ameer_dam02 ($1.76 in chips)
Seat 2: 3Georgetown3 ($1.52 in chips)
Seat 3: JatFay ($0.47 in chips)
Seat 4: Card Thief ($2.27 in chips)
Seat 5: drew966c ($1.76 in chips)
Seat 6: alodyne ($4.07 in chips)
Seat 7: jedimasters ($1.30 in chips)
Seat 9: westie44 ($1.89 in chips)
alodyne: posts small blind $0.01
jedimasters: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to alodyne [4s 4c]
westie44: calls $0.02
ameer_dam02: calls $0.02
3Georgetown3: calls $0.02
JatFay: calls $0.02
Card Thief: folds
drew966c: calls $0.02
alodyne: calls $0.01
jedimasters: checks
*** FLOP *** [3d Th Tc]
alodyne: bets $0.16
jedimasters: folds
westie44: folds
ameer_dam02: calls $0.16
3Georgetown3: folds
JatFay: folds
drew966c: calls $0.16
*** TURN *** [3d Th Tc] [9d]
alodyne: bets $0.20
ameer_dam02: calls $0.20
drew966c: folds
*** RIVER *** [3d Th Tc 9d] [8d]
alodyne: checks
3Georgetown3 said, " ooooooooooooooooooo baby"
ameer_dam02: bets $1.38 and is all-in
3Georgetown3 said, "call *** boy"
alodyne: folds
ameer_dam02 collected $0.97 from pot

Not only would I like to know what you all think of this final hand, I would like to know whether you think the winning player and the vocal player were colluding. I would have folded even had I not been urged to call ;)

Thanks in advance for all your help.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-10-2005, 05:58 PM #2 (permalink)  
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What are your reads?

Hand 1: Fold preflop. Have you seen Bill or disp playing passively preflop with AKo or AQo or hands of that nature? Have they over valued two pair on scary board before? I think you're safe to call with the K. Fold preflop.

Hand 2: We're you trying to check-raise the river? You're definatly safe to bet again here. The betting was weak the whole way down, no reason to think anyone has you beat OR that Jonesy will bet the river.

Hand 3: You're given proper odds and huge implied odds to draw for your full house. Any strong flush will pay you off huge on the river.

Hand 4: I would have folded on the flop. Unless you're going to play this hand agressively, you can't really call the flop bet becuase you're only winning if it's checked down and everyone was blowing smoke up your ass. You would have folded to a bet on the turn so why even call the flop bet?

Hand 4: If you suspect colluding, notify support.

Don't forget to post a little info about the opponents next time. It's a battle of information.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Sed
Old 01-10-2005, 06:07 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Sed
'rilla I think you skipped one...

#3 is trip 7s on the flop

- sed


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Sed
Old 01-10-2005, 06:09 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Sed
btw good fold on those trips... all sorts of crap hands could have beat you there

- sed


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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-10-2005, 06:34 PM #5 (permalink)  
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No, it was a bad fold. You're getting 4.6:1 on your money + big implied odds to fill up on the river. 10 outs hit 1/5 of the time.

Call and hope to fill up. If you don't easy fold.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Sed
Old 01-10-2005, 06:36 PM #6 (permalink)  
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good point
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Sed
Old 01-10-2005, 06:43 PM #7 (permalink)  
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How do you take into account implied odds?
Is there a formula?
Do you give them more weight based on the player or table?
Are they sort of a nudge in situations where the pot odds aren't quite there like this one?

- sed


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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-10-2005, 06:45 PM #8 (permalink)  
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If there are players who can't let go of their big hands, you have big implied odds to crack them.

Lets say you read someone that has a hard time folding over pairs for AA preflop and he's been called by 2 other people. You can call here hoping to make two pair or better knowing that a lot of chips will go into the pot if the flop comes T93 and you hold T9.

That's all, it's just judging how much money you can get in if you make your draw.

Search for old scgolfer (not to pick on your play) posts from when he had that horrible run. You'll notice that it's hard for a lot of people to fold AA against non-threatening boards which pays off the guys playing rags hoping to strike it big.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Sed
Old 01-10-2005, 06:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
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So, in this case you'ld have huge implied odds since the other two left in the hand probably won't let their strt/flush go when you push all-in on the river after hitting.

- sed


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Aces
Old 01-10-2005, 09:25 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Aces
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
What are your reads?
Hand 4: If you suspect colluding, notify support.
-'rilla
Not that I think collusion is that much of an issue anyway, but I would be even less worried at these limits.
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alodyne
Old 01-12-2005, 10:43 PM #11 (permalink)  

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alodyne
Thanks everyone for all your helpful comments. (I'll be sure to post my reads on the players next time, sorry!)

I want to make sure I know what is meant here by implied odds (I refer to hand 3, numbered 50 in the post). There are strong flush/straight possibilities on the board. So if I already know that the players are unwilling/unlikely to fold a strong hand, I should call, hoping to fill up, because I will make so much money off the hand. Is this more or less what you mean? (In fact, it was a straight, 7-J, that took down that hand:

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Festah: shows [Js Ac] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
j84stang3: mucks hand
Festah collected $1.69 from pot
)

Thanks again, for all your help.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-12-2005, 10:48 PM #12 (permalink)  
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The pot odds were pretty close too.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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bspahn
Old 01-12-2005, 11:36 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Very interesting point, and I definitely agree with the implied odds on the trip 7's, as far as I can tell you'd have 9 outs from the other cards on board to pair up (3 x 3 remaining) plus the fourth 7 for the 4-of-a-kind to give 10 outs total, those are good pot odds.
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Ayce
Old 01-12-2005, 11:58 PM #14 (permalink)  
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At microlimits most players are incredibly loose and I note from your hand selection that you are loose going in. This is not necessarily a bad thing when you are up against very loose opponents provided you know how to play post flop.

1. Call (all in) - these players are very loose most with AK would have raised more before the flop

2. Raise - they will call anyway

3. Call - beat at this stage but rilla is totally right about your pot odds and implied odds and if you hit you will make a mint since they will likely see your push

4. Be more aggressive earlier

5. Good fold

Try and get out of microlimits as soon as you can it's almost like play money and will teach you bad habits.
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alodyne
Old 01-17-2005, 11:43 PM #15 (permalink)  

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alodyne
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Hand 3: You're given proper odds and huge implied odds to draw for your full house. Any strong flush will pay you off huge on the river.
Sure enough - twice today I have made this pay by filling up. Once was a huge payoff, because the guy had the flush, ace-high. Too bad I have all his chips (Ks full of Ts).

Thanks 'rilla!
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a500lbgorilla
Old 01-17-2005, 11:53 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alodyne
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Hand 3: You're given proper odds and huge implied odds to draw for your full house. Any strong flush will pay you off huge on the river.
Sure enough - twice today I have made this pay by filling up. Once was a huge payoff, because the guy had the flush, ace-high. Too bad I have all his chips (Ks full of Ts).

Thanks 'rilla!
I aim to please. 8-)

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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