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Playing QQ in Ring preflop

  
 
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ender555
Old 05-04-2005, 05:51 AM     Post subject: Playing QQ in Ring preflop #1 (permalink)  
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I'm curious as to what to do with Queens when you're faced with a raiser in front of you. Lets just assume its 3-4xbb. I usually re-raise double to knock out any callers after me. however a lot of this times it triggers an all-in, and one that I don't want to have to call.... kk and aa seem to get me quite a bit.


Should I just be calling these preflop raises and rely on post flop play to not get de-stacked by these KK and AA?
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sejje
Old 05-04-2005, 06:12 AM #2 (permalink)  
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QQ is a hand I try to flop, and I don't usually mind more players in the pot.

I'm really usually playing it for a set, or maybe a checkraise to keep AK honest.
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Element187
Old 05-04-2005, 06:23 AM #3 (permalink)  
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depends (we love that word)


what have you seen your opponent go all in with in the past ... use that as a reference, if he pushes with AK or 99, then maybe call, but you will get burned occaisonally when he does have AA KK ...
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ender555
Old 05-04-2005, 03:44 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element187
depends (we love that word)


what have you seen your opponent go all in with in the past ... use that as a reference, if he pushes with AK or 99, then maybe call, but you will get burned occaisonally when he does have AA KK ...
Let's just assume that these are good players. Usually QQ is to weak to go all in preflop for ring. At least that's what melinda said on here earlier, and I would be willing to bet i've lost money making this play. it's also a strong hand that it doesn't need to be played for a set however, it's nice when it hits but you don't need to make it that weak. I guess the size of the stack that the preflop raiser has really is the answer here. if he will only have half his stack left he will probably just push preflop.

but i'd still like to know whether people re-raise or call with qq. (generally)
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dalecooper
Old 05-04-2005, 03:50 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I'll re-raise pre-flop once and see what happens. I do hate this hand against the type of players that are always in pissing matches though, because they will re-raise all-in just for pride, and then you're stuck making a hard decision against a fairly wide range of starting hands - anything as weak as AJ really.
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homerdash
Old 05-04-2005, 06:06 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I'm assuming that you're in late position and not SB/BB.

If you're playing $25NL, and they raise 3-4xBB, I'd raise it up to around $3. You might end up taking it down right there. If they push in response, then it's pretty much up to your reads at that point. Like dalecooper said, some players seem to like wang measuring contests, and if they seem like that sort of player, then I'm definitely calling.
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ender555
Old 05-05-2005, 02:41 PM #7 (permalink)  
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word
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Robert Tiltin'
Old 05-05-2005, 02:55 PM #8 (permalink)  

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I'm RAISING pre-flop and then pushing all-in regardless of what's on the board. The ONLY way I can lose is by a BAD BEAT.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($35)
SB ($79)
BB ($90.10)
UTG ($145.85)
UTG+1 ($68.55)
MP1 ($37)
MP2 ($148.05)
Hero ($107.80)
CO ($144.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with , .
4 folds, Hero raises to $4, CO calls $4, 2 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) , , (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $11, CO calls $11, BB folds.

Turn: ($34.50) (2 players)
Hero bets $10, CO raises to $35, Hero raises to $92.8, CO calls $57.80.

River: ($220.10) (2 players)

Final Pot: $220.10

Results in white below:
Hero has Qd Qc (straight, ace high).
CO has 7c 7h (three of a kind, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins $220.10.
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tcpj4
Old 05-05-2005, 08:18 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
The ONLY way I can lose is by a BAD BEAT
Perhaps I missed the entire point of your post, but it seems that you are delivering the bad beats there, catching runner runner for your straight.
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EasyT
Old 05-05-2005, 09:34 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
I'm RAISING pre-flop and then pushing all-in regardless of what's on the board. The ONLY way I can lose is by a BAD BEAT.
If we're done joking around, I believe ender was looking for some advice on playing his QQ.

I'd take dalecooper's advice (here and everywhere else). Give it one re-raise to get more information about his hand.
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dalecooper
Old 05-06-2005, 10:48 PM #11 (permalink)  
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You flatterer, Easy.

Here's an interesting hand with queens...

***** Hand History for Game 2009108562 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Friday, May 06, 18:42:17 EDT 2005
Table Table 37235 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: cagedman ( $26.8 )
Seat 3: breaker508 ( $23.6 )
Seat 4: SkylerOAM ( $36.68 )
Seat 5: filliponi ( $26.6 )
Seat 8: despotable1 ( $34.95 )
Seat 9: U_BAATLE_ME ( $31.8 )
Seat 10: shooter_22 ( $20.75 )
Seat 1: stressball10 ( $28.6 )
Seat 6: ajd44 ( $10 )
breaker508 posts small blind [$0.1].
SkylerOAM posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ Qs Qh ]
filliponi calls [$0.25].
despotable1 folds.
U_BAATLE_ME folds.
paranoya332 has joined the table.
shooter_22 folds.
stressball10 raises [$0.75].
cagedman folds.
breaker508 calls [$0.65].
SkylerOAM raises [$2.75].
filliponi folds.
stressball10 calls [$2.25].
breaker508 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, Ac, 9c ]
SkylerOAM checks.
stressball10 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
SkylerOAM bets [$3].
stressball10 folds.
SkylerOAM does not show cards.
SkylerOAM wins $9.65


Skyler re-raised me pretty substantially from the big blind; I immediately assumed he had jacks, kings, aces, or maybe AK, and called with the "no set (probably) no bet" mentality. Flop comes out ace high and suddenly he's timid and checks to me? I'm not the fish that's going to bite that hook. I check behind and fold to his first real bet. It's possible I misread the whole thing, but I think it's better than even money that he flopped trip aces and wanted to lure me in. I bet the club on the turn made him sweat a little though. If I was feeling feistier I'd try to exploit that.
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face
Old 05-07-2005, 12:40 AM #12 (permalink)  
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I don't think it's fishy at all to throw out a bet on this flop. Depends on your read on villain. Is he an aggressive player? Does he make continuation bets, or check when he misses? If yes and yes, then you're almost certainly correct to check/fold. If he's an average fish, however, I think you folded the best hand.
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Bmxicle
Old 05-07-2005, 01:55 AM #13 (permalink)  
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I always like to re-raise with QQ, but i'm not looking to go allin with QQ, and if my re-raise gets raised then i just call and play for trips usually unless i have a very good read on someone. Calling is bad because it gives you less information, and gets less money in while you are likely ahead.

Heres, a hand where i had a raise in front of me, i called down cause the guy was on tilt and spewing money.

***** Hand History for Game 1999785495 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Wednesday, May 04, 20:34:52 EDT 2005
Table Table 36534 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: Bmxicle2 ( $203.45 )
Seat 5: Jamo18 ( $118.43 )
Seat 6: DELUC ( $99.88 )
Seat 1: vguilleux ( $150.29 )
Seat 3: Lagniappe_ ( $102.55 )
Seat 8: GoddessNut ( $81.67 )
Seat 7: DELTRON3032 ( $93.5 )
Seat 9: JaySimpson ( $120.5 )
Seat 10: ATON1 ( $104.6 )
Seat 2: whatups ( $100 )
Bmxicle2 posts small blind [$0.5].
Jamo18 posts big blind [$1].
whatups posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bmxicle2 [ Qd Qs ]
GoddessNut: i could tell you had the flush draw there
DELUC folds.
Jamo18: oh yes I am
>You have options at Table 36868 Table!.
GoddessNut: and when you went all in it was obvious you had it
DELTRON3032 raises [$3].
>You have options at Table 36868 Table!.
GoddessNut folds.
JaySimpson folds.
ATON1 folds.
vguilleux folds.
whatups folds.
Lagniappe_ folds.
Bmxicle2 raises [$5.5].
>You have options at Table 36868 Table!.
Jamo18: so you just thought youd call
Jamo18 folds.
DELTRON3032 calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, 9d, 8s ]
GoddessNut: you're going to get caught when someone has a higher flush
GoddessNut: I wasn't i the hand stupid
Jamo18: true
Bmxicle2 bets [$12].
DELTRON3032 raises [$24].
Jamo18: well its easy for you to say then
Bmxicle2 calls [$12].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8h ]
Bmxicle2 checks.
DELTRON3032 bets [$20].
Bmxicle2 calls [$20].
** Dealing River ** [ 5h ]
Bmxicle2 checks.
DELTRON3032 checks.
Bmxicle2 shows [ Qd, Qs ] two pairs, queens and nines.
DELTRON3032 doesn't show [ Jh, Jd ] two pairs, jacks and nines.
Bmxicle2 wins $99 from the main pot with two pairs, queens and nines.
easy for me to tell that you had flush
jacks
 
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dalecooper
Old 05-08-2005, 03:52 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by face
I don't think it's fishy at all to throw out a bet on this flop. Depends on your read on villain. Is he an aggressive player? Does he make continuation bets, or check when he misses? If yes and yes, then you're almost certainly correct to check/fold. If he's an average fish, however, I think you folded the best hand.
I just don't think the "average fish" does much pre-flop re-raising. Maybe it's just me, but when I get re-raised in a full ring game I assume that he's leading out on the flop no matter what. I only get suspicious when he doesn't. The only thing I can possibly think is that he re-raised with pocket kings and checked the ace assuming I had one, but if so that is EXTREMELY timid play. I'll live with making a bad fold in that situation because I think more often, he would check-raise me and I'd have to let it go.
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ender555
Old 05-08-2005, 05:10 PM #15 (permalink)  
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ender555
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalecooper
You flatterer, Easy.

Here's an interesting hand with queens...

***** Hand History for Game 2009108562 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Friday, May 06, 18:42:17 EDT 2005
Table Table 37235 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: cagedman ( $26.8 )
Seat 3: breaker508 ( $23.6 )
Seat 4: SkylerOAM ( $36.68 )
Seat 5: filliponi ( $26.6 )
Seat 8: despotable1 ( $34.95 )
Seat 9: U_BAATLE_ME ( $31.8 )
Seat 10: shooter_22 ( $20.75 )
Seat 1: stressball10 ( $28.6 )
Seat 6: ajd44 ( $10 )
breaker508 posts small blind [$0.1].
SkylerOAM posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ Qs Qh ]
filliponi calls [$0.25].
despotable1 folds.
U_BAATLE_ME folds.
paranoya332 has joined the table.
shooter_22 folds.
stressball10 raises [$0.75].
cagedman folds.
breaker508 calls [$0.65].
SkylerOAM raises [$2.75].
filliponi folds.
stressball10 calls [$2.25].
breaker508 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, Ac, 9c ]
SkylerOAM checks.
stressball10 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
SkylerOAM bets [$3].
stressball10 folds.
SkylerOAM does not show cards.
SkylerOAM wins $9.65


Skyler re-raised me pretty substantially from the big blind; I immediately assumed he had jacks, kings, aces, or maybe AK, and called with the "no set (probably) no bet" mentality. Flop comes out ace high and suddenly he's timid and checks to me? I'm not the fish that's going to bite that hook. I check behind and fold to his first real bet. It's possible I misread the whole thing, but I think it's better than even money that he flopped trip aces and wanted to lure me in. I bet the club on the turn made him sweat a little though. If I was feeling feistier I'd try to exploit that.
Personally I think he had kings and you could've pushed him off them with a nice bet. If not oh well, but that's how i woulda played it.
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dsaxton
Old 05-09-2005, 12:27 AM     Post subject: Re: Playing QQ in Ring preflop #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ender555
I'm curious as to what to do with Queens when you're faced with a raiser in front of you. Lets just assume its 3-4xbb. I usually re-raise double to knock out any callers after me. however a lot of this times it triggers an all-in, and one that I don't want to have to call.... kk and aa seem to get me quite a bit.
You don't have to call the all-in. The all-in tells you to fold.
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